Atheism is a belief (Why Atheists don't believe part 2)

I suppose so. If they become truly convinced that the Gospel is a story and the universe is atheist then I suppose so. I think Ramoss mentioned some valid personal reasons. ahaha. You really do think I doubt God because of my agnostic-like posts and such. I just content myself in knowing that being wrong is something any reasonable person has to think about if they are really interested in truth seeking.Look, Phat my friend, I believe in Jesus fully. If I started to disbelieve I know that he's left me without excuse because he has refuted me. Only Christ has ever refuted me Phat. For that reason, I shall call him Mycroft Holmes. The freedom, is that I don't have to be a radical like I used to be. It's great to not preach at atheists because I they are just some rare bunch of harmless naturalists to me these days.

*sigh* next time I advocate stringing up gays and shooting abortion doctors then do remind me of this. You seems to have some rose-tinted view of things Phat and aren't seeing things as they are. Hell-bound -unless-Christ is what folk are here. Don't lose sight of that in your attempt to hold some kind of middle ground. Take this for example: A Christian is told to go tell. It is plain. And you ask why we should bother? Of course they see it as live and let live. That's the god they worship. It appears irrational because they are blind. Do note that no one is forcing the atheist to read or respond to this. They chose to react because their god is being blasphemed. Edited by iano, : No reason given.

You DO realize, by the way, that you are quite the absolutist in these arguments.Lemme play the advocate with you. Who are you to tell me how to live?add by edit: In a forum, the middle ground leads to more productive conversations. This is a forum and not a church.Edited by Phat, : add by edit

As a believer in what precisely Phat?

Thats for you (and more directly, the readers) to figure out.Sometimes, the best advertisment is in saying nothing.

And your a middle ground equivocator. So? I don't tell you how to live. But I see no reason to leave the likes of "Don't worry folks it will all work out in the end" stand without giving an opinion on it. The middle ground leads to shades of grey. But I note that when your views are challenged in no uncertain terms, your middle ground tone (as is begun to become apparent in this post) shifts somewhat.Welcome to the world of debate Phat.

The parable of the talents springs to mind..Hiding your light under a bushel ain't exactly the kind of advertisement he meant Phat. Don't mistake a tendency never to offend as good Christian loving. That's the kind of thinking that lad to "Peace in our time"

just let the christians here all fight out amongst themselves and once they have worked out which one of them has the "clear understanding" of the christian insurance policy - they can let the rest of us know.

Does that make the observation non-objective? Because if so, then everything is subjective - for everything in the end is "interpreted by the brain" - even the notion that everything is interpreted by the brain. Which kind of makes the word objective somewhat moot.The definition of objective includes the notion that external reality exists whether there is an observer or not to observe it. And the notion that what we observe - aside from that which is influenced by prejudice or belief, etc - is objective. The key seem to be that if we can observe it then it exists. The question then returns to who is in a position to observe God objectively (aside from prejudice and belief) and who is not. We don't but like I say it is an assumption that an external reality exists whether we observe it or not. The assumption allows the notion of objectivity. I didn't say it could not be described. I said it doesn't necessarily have to be described. It being observed will suffice. It needs to be observed to exist.ps: you made the point that a sunset could be mistaken for something else. Any ideas what these things might be?

Man, all of you except for CK and the select few are on crack. Your going around in circles over plain and simple truths. Yes, everything is mis-translated and shaped to the person's own liking, and yes, everything in life has an objective. So, will you please simplify your statements into smaller more meaningful answers instead of trying to impress your new-found "opponent" by showing him/her that you can look up more words in the dictionary.

This is not only an ad hominen attack, but also a change of subject. The gospels or my understanding of them is completely irrelevant to the subject which was your misscaracterization of the christian faith as an isurance policy. Why don`t you try actually addressing my question That way, hopefully, we may start heading back to topic Again revert back to my question in post 114 (quoted above). Do YOU have cover for such an eventuality?More ad mominen attacks. why don`t you try making a point for a change? Even in the faith and belief fora a fallacy is still a fallacy. All evidence requires interpretation. Non-evidence requires faith (Nothing wrong with that, as far as I can tell.) Really? don`t you think they realize that other people can do things that they cannot? like telling how many finger in their hands are up or down without touching them. Other people seem to be able to consistently do this (And many other things of course) while he/she cannot. This is very objective evidence.

AdminAsgara didn't tell you about the cocaine angle? Oh dear.Welcome to EvC Tag. When you post you have an option of doing a general reply (tab down the bottom of the page - which you clicked for your last post) - which might be a general, aimed-at-all comment. If you want to reply to a specific post the click the reply button at the bottom of the post itself. That way everyone knows who you are addressing your post to.As to simplicity. Its not really that simple. What you refer to as simple truths are a matter of opinion and so debate ensues. To think of a simple example. I hold to the simple truth that God is an objective, observable reality. Others disagree. They hold that the simple truth is otherwise. Oh were life but simple!

My personal observations have been the oposite of that. The harder someone`s life is, the more the clinge to the hope of a better afterlife.

Sure it's enough, I can relate to that, but that makes it a belief.

I have heard all too many times atheist complain, "well if God exists, then He should come down and show us, and maybe correct all the mistakes of the world, blah blah"I used to complain the same thing.The bible is factual evidence, because He did come down and show us how to do it, we as a race, have just choossen not to.To me it is more than just anecdotal evidence, it has become fact in my life, but you will call it subjective. That is exactly what I said. You reject or accept it. (although it's not as simple as that) so you have made a choice to believe in something else. After learning what I have learned, through the bible, and teachings of the Holy Spirit, I disagree with you. note: I hate superstitions. You cannot qualify that statement. Non-belief just doesn't seem to happen, because no matter what society, there is some kind of God. At some point people were born believing there is something out there.
You were not born like this(default position of non-belief), you were shown some choices, so you cannot be an atheist. If you were never shown these choices, and you did not think something was out there, then you'd be an atheist.