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Author Topic:   How Likely Is It Jesus' Got Married
Phat
Member
Posts: 12281
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 33 of 109 (316275)
05-30-2006 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by macaroniandcheese
05-29-2006 10:08 AM


Re: The Church
Igor writes:

How likely is it that Jesus was married and his line continued? I personally find it extremely unlikely. If you look in The Bible, there sre 4 accounts of his life and they make no mention of it. I just want some people's opinions of whether or not they think it could be true.


Mick writes:

What I really want to know is - what are the implications of Jesus having married? What are the theological implications? That Jesus had a cock? Is that it? Is that why the Churches are up against it?

Hi Mick! :) From what I have heard, many theologians are against the idea because they believe that Jesus was betrothed to the people as a whole and that His mission required that He devote Himself to that cause exclusively (which would rule out a wife and family)

The second reason is because scripture does not support it. Of course, if we question scripture (by using human wisdom as our primary source) than I suppose that we could conclude anything about the Bible.

Philosophically, I think that the answer is unprovable scholastically. How can one scholar be more trustworthy than another, particularly those with agendas?

By that I mean that some critics say that believing apologists already have an agenda of promoting the Biblical accounts and are thus biased.

Other critics, however, say that secular scholars with no bias have an agenda to debunk the entire idea that the Bible is a preserved and accuracte representation of Jesus life.

Ringo writes:

Just off the top of my head, I'd say it would "mean" absolutely nothing if He had kids. Is having kids some kind of "imperfection"? How would having kids change His teachings?

Perhaps, Ringo. Lemme ask you this, though. If He were not actually the unique Son of God but rather merely another in a long line of human teachers, would that affect the source and origin of your personal faith? I realize that you advocate following the message and behaving correctly and all, but do you actually think that you yourself are the source of this power and ability?

We all have opinions and beliefs. Beliefs, if based on what we have been taught, are nothing more than opinions. Is the Bible innerrent or not? Does it really matter?

What matters is whether or not God is real. Only by having settled this issue internally can anyone have a belief about the issue. Otherwise, it is just an opinion (untested)

I suppose that theoretically Jesus COULD have been married, although I think that the symbolism is that we all are His family. (of course, I am a Trinitarian, so I would think this way)

Ned writes:

Didn't Jesus' Dad have a kid -- out of wedlock and with a woman married to another?

Yes but He was the Judge so He got off with that one! The lawyers had no case against Him! :)

arachnophilia writes:

ok, so jesus has to be perfect if he's to be a sacrifice for our sins. central to christianity, ok, got it.
being born of a virgin doesn't have anything to do with that, at all. that bit is to make him the literal son of god.

Well, the sinless blood concept would allow for Jesus to remain single. Was not the idea that He would eventually marry the whole church? He and us are in courtship currently... some are opting for a pre-nup, however. No seats at the wedding for them!

arachnophilia writes:

i think that requiring christ to NOT be human is a bit, well, silly. part of the whole idea was that he WAS human (even if he was something else as well) and subject to all the concerns of fleshly existence that we are. and he was perfect anyways. he's an example, if anything, of what we are capable of -- not an unattainable standard held against us.

I suppose that the issue is How we attain this standard. Jesus was on a mission from His Father...a business trip, as it were. He had no time for marriage. (Unless you consider Him just another in a long line of human teachers.) Very Jewish.

brennakimi writes:

see, the idea is that bachelors don't understand how real life works. met any very wise bachelors before? i didn't think so.

Hey, Brenn! Im a bachelor and I think I relate to teenagers better than most adults I know, including parents. I will admit that when they talk of dating and sexual issues, I am clueless, however! :)

Of course, if Jesus was as divine as He was human, He may have a few insights that mere human only teachers lack.

brennakimi writes:

i think it would be better if we thought of jesus as married. because then we can ask 'how did jesus treat his wife?' sure they say it now, but they don't mean it. they appropriate jesus' wife being the church.

I think that the church IS Jesus wife, and that He treats her more than fairly! She is a bit of a waunderer, though.....
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by macaroniandcheese, posted 05-29-2006 10:08 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by macaroniandcheese, posted 05-30-2006 1:00 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 35 by ringo, posted 05-30-2006 1:57 PM Phat has responded
 Message 36 by lfen, posted 05-30-2006 3:54 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12281
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 37 of 109 (316374)
05-30-2006 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by ringo
05-30-2006 1:57 PM


The symbolism of Christianity
Topic: How likely is it that Jesus Got Married?

Ringo writes:

Don't confuse symbolism with reality.

You and I go with different flows, here. Communion is both a symbolism and a reality, IMHO.
Lets discuss symbolism.

  • The Virgin Birth was symbolic. Was it reality?
  • Original Sin is symbolic. As we observe the behavior of our species, can we see any evidence for the reality behind it?
  • Holy Communion, or common union, is symbolic. Do we humans have a need of it? Is it a necessary reality?

    I don't see Jesus a merely another in a long line of sages and moral teachers in touch with spirituality.

    You may suggest that the teaching is tied to the fact that we all are capable of right behavior and would be well advised to go and do likewise.

    Human nature seems to point to directly the opposite direction. 5% of the people on the planet own or control 85-90% of the resources, according to my college sociology book. This hardly sounds like the message is getting through.

  • The symbolism of Christ rising from the dead is a necessary reality for the power of Christianity to change an individual, in the belief of many. ( of course, many christians who claim to be saved are also not walking advertisments for this message, so perhaps my argument is moot.

    I guess that what I'm trying to say in all of this is the opinion that Jesus would have no need for marriage because

  • He did not need to have communion with a woman to feel completeness in Himself.
  • He would have no need or purpose to bear natural children.

    Assuming, of course, that this human man was also a bit more than the rest of us! (Thats what Rising from the Dead will do for you! :)


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 35 by ringo, posted 05-30-2006 1:57 PM ringo has responded

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     Message 38 by ringo, posted 05-30-2006 8:02 PM Phat has not yet responded
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  • Phat
    Member
    Posts: 12281
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.3


    Message 78 of 109 (343538)
    08-26-2006 9:05 AM
    Reply to: Message 39 by Hyroglyphx
    05-30-2006 11:05 PM


    Re: Cosmic implications
    nemesis writes:

    His virginity has nothing to do with His holiness or lack thereof.

    Jesus from an early age expressed that He was about His Father's business.

    Getting married and having little chitlins was not a part of the program.

    Jesus existed for one, central purpose - and that purpose is to reveal Himself as the Messiah and to become the sacrificial Lamb to cover sin in the penitent man/woman.

    Having a typical life did not fit into the parameter of His purpose.

    Yes. He was not just an ordinary Rabbi.

    Ringo writes:

    ... if Jesus was truly human, He certainly would feel a need to "have communion with a woman".

    Im truly human, and yet feel no need to get married. Heck, even communion with a woman is a challenge! :rolleyes:

    Some say that Jesus was fully human just as we are. I would assert that Jesus was fully human yet was fully in communion with God, which no human that I have ever met is.

    Jesus was so fully devoted to His Bride....which includes all of us...that He would have no time to focus on but one significant other.


    “There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way” --C.S.Lewis

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 39 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-30-2006 11:05 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 12281
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.3


    Message 86 of 109 (344530)
    08-28-2006 11:29 PM
    Reply to: Message 84 by ringo
    08-28-2006 2:35 PM


    Re: Double Standards?
    Ringo writes:

    I would think if anybody ever represented Everyman, it should be Jesus. (And Everyman has children.)

    OH! So a guy who doesnt choose to get married or have kids is somehow less?

    That smacks of bias, if anything does!


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 84 by ringo, posted 08-28-2006 2:35 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 89 by ringo, posted 08-29-2006 12:53 AM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 12281
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.3


    Message 87 of 109 (344532)
    08-28-2006 11:31 PM
    Reply to: Message 85 by Nighttrain
    08-28-2006 9:15 PM


    Re: All meat and no potatoes
    nighttrain writes:

    there has to be a reluctance to give Jesus any qualities of the flesh.

    well, maybe we should let the pagan fertility cults have their way!

    Oh yeah! Sex is normal...the more the better. Preoccupation with pleasure for pleasures sake! Heathens!


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 85 by Nighttrain, posted 08-28-2006 9:15 PM Nighttrain has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 12281
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.3


    Message 90 of 109 (344596)
    08-29-2006 2:43 AM
    Reply to: Message 89 by ringo
    08-29-2006 12:53 AM


    Re: Double Standards?
    Thats what Jesus is, though. An anomoly. He is not representative of the human race, for the human race is imperfect and fallen.

    I think that Jesus never having been married or even of having relations with anyone is quite likely. The church didnt just dream that up.

    You have to quit believing these liberal scholars at these Jesus seminars without a clue as to the workings of the Holy Spirit. They are simply extrapolating their intellectual void.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 89 by ringo, posted 08-29-2006 12:53 AM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 92 by U can call me Cookie, posted 08-29-2006 2:55 AM Phat has not yet responded
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