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Author Topic:   Hey Mark and others
abio
Inactive Junior Member


Message 1 of 18 (31551)
02-06-2003 2:53 PM


Hey Mark this is sonofasilor, I lost the old password and changed email. How are things? Here is a question for you and others.
Has random abiogeneis been observed?
How about cross species mutations?
Also, what are the 2 best questions to ask a creationist to prove there belief?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Gzus, posted 02-06-2003 3:05 PM abio has not replied
 Message 4 by mark24, posted 02-06-2003 4:57 PM abio has not replied
 Message 17 by TrueCreation, posted 02-20-2003 7:24 PM abio has not replied

  
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 18 (31552)
02-06-2003 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by abio
02-06-2003 2:53 PM


I have more than 2 questions for creationists.
1. Prove beyond all doubt that your religion is the true one (they can't)
2. (in response to an attempt at preaching their religion to you) -why should I? or -so, who cares?
3. Reply to everything 'prove it'
4. In response to lectures about hell, fire and brimstone etc. Say, 'i don't believe you and unless you prove it i'm not going to believe you'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by abio, posted 02-06-2003 2:53 PM abio has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by judge, posted 02-06-2003 4:19 PM Gzus has not replied
 Message 6 by jdean33442, posted 02-06-2003 6:55 PM Gzus has replied

  
judge
Member (Idle past 6443 days)
Posts: 216
From: australia
Joined: 11-11-2002


Message 3 of 18 (31558)
02-06-2003 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Gzus
02-06-2003 3:05 PM


I have more than 2 questions for creationists.
1. Prove beyond all doubt that your religion is the true one (they can't)
Judge:
A guy I know thinks his cat created the universe..do I have to prove it to him as well?
4. In response to lectures about hell, fire and brimstone etc. Say, 'i don't believe you and unless you prove it i'm not going to believe you'.
G'henna is a valley outside Jerusalem...it's still there if you go over....(hope this isn't too cryptic)
all the best.
[This message has been edited by judge, 02-06-2003]
[This message has been edited by judge, 02-06-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Gzus, posted 02-06-2003 3:05 PM Gzus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by tsjok45, posted 02-09-2003 8:55 AM judge has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 4 of 18 (31559)
02-06-2003 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by abio
02-06-2003 2:53 PM


Hi SOS!
How ya doing?
quote:
Has random abiogeneis been observed?
No.
quote:
How about cross species mutations?
Not sure what you mean, can you elaborate?
quote:
Also, what are the 2 best questions to ask a creationist to prove there belief?
1/ Can you provide evidence of your religion, to the same standard you expect of evolution?
2/ Can you provide evidence of your religion, to the same standard evolution can?
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by abio, posted 02-06-2003 2:53 PM abio has not replied

  
abio
Inactive Junior Member


Message 5 of 18 (31560)
02-06-2003 5:17 PM


Hey Mark.
First I passed 3 out of the 4 parts of the CPA exam that I was studying for the last time I was on here. 1 more to go.
OK, I was asked "have we observed a cross species mutation"? It is bascially a loose/loose question. Of course not, and we never have claimed to, but thought you might give the question a try.
Do you think we will ever create the conditions for abiogenesis? That is from me out of curiosity?
I guess my questions that I wanted you to propose would have been more from creation and genesis than religion. I liked the second question, but is it safe to say we are close to absolute evidence for evolution and abiogenesis.
Take care Mark.
Erik

  
jdean33442
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 18 (31570)
02-06-2003 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Gzus
02-06-2003 3:05 PM


quote:
I have more than 2 questions for creationists.
1. Prove beyond all doubt that your religion is the true one (they can't)
2. (in response to an attempt at preaching their religion to you) -why should I? or -so, who cares?
3. Reply to everything 'prove it'
4. In response to lectures about hell, fire and brimstone etc. Say, 'i don't believe you and unless you prove it i'm not going to believe you'.
All of these questions can be presented to evolutionists also.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Gzus, posted 02-06-2003 3:05 PM Gzus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Gzus, posted 02-07-2003 5:48 AM jdean33442 has not replied
 Message 10 by Coragyps, posted 02-09-2003 10:29 AM jdean33442 has not replied

  
Zephan
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 18 (31584)
02-06-2003 9:04 PM


But the creationists don't have to prove anything, right?
This site is entitled Evolution v. Creation.
Clearly, the evolutionist has assumed the entire burden to provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Evidence for random abiogenesis?
Anybody...anybody? .?

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Peter, posted 02-27-2003 3:13 AM Zephan has not replied

  
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 18 (31653)
02-07-2003 5:48 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jdean33442
02-06-2003 6:55 PM


True, but i'm not strictly an evolutionist, i'm really more of a nihilist, i don't believe in anything!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jdean33442, posted 02-06-2003 6:55 PM jdean33442 has not replied

  
tsjok45
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 18 (31779)
02-09-2003 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by judge
02-06-2003 4:19 PM


Hi judge
A guy I know thinks his cat created the universe
..do I have to prove it to him as well?
--> maybe the guy ( or you for that matter )can try to prove it to the cat as well
--> maybe the cat will not understand ---> neither do I
The cat may even become very upset and will try to "fight " or
will just walk away ( cats always do ... )
---> Or maybe we can ask the cat for some "revelation " formulated in human language of course , so we can understand the message ....
Nice
I'd rather be a watchdog fighting with some cat
Woef , woef
Meme Tsjok
p.s.
just prove that TOLKIEN and the " lord of the rings " is NOT the "real story " behind it all ... That's namely what I
truly believe ( and some voodoo too )
or maybe ... its the dog that created the universe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by judge, posted 02-06-2003 4:19 PM judge has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 10 of 18 (31781)
02-09-2003 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jdean33442
02-06-2003 6:55 PM


quote:
1. Prove beyond all doubt that your religion is the true one
All of these questions can be presented to evolutionists also.
Tat first one can't be asked of me - I have no religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jdean33442, posted 02-06-2003 6:55 PM jdean33442 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Gzus, posted 02-09-2003 4:05 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 18 (31794)
02-09-2003 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Coragyps
02-09-2003 10:29 AM


Welcome, fellow unbeliever!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Coragyps, posted 02-09-2003 10:29 AM Coragyps has not replied

  
lpetrich
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 18 (31799)
02-09-2003 4:36 PM


Ask creationists about biogeography.
Why do only the Americas have rattlesnakes when poisonous snakes have no trouble living elsewhere in the world?
Why do some oceanic islands have giant turtles, but none have giant rats?
Etc.
Creationist literature avoids biogeography, so it may be easier to stump a creationist on biogeography than on (say) abiogenesis.

  
NeilUnreal
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 18 (31806)
02-09-2003 8:22 PM


>but none have giant rats?
I thought there were giant rats in Sumatra?
-Neil

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Coragyps, posted 02-09-2003 8:45 PM NeilUnreal has not replied
 Message 16 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-09-2003 8:56 PM NeilUnreal has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 14 of 18 (31808)
02-09-2003 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by NeilUnreal
02-09-2003 8:22 PM


Sumatra was connected to the Malay Peninsula up till the start of the Holocene - lpetrich is talking about "new" or remote islands like Aldabra, the Galapagos, etc. Hawaii is also in the "isolated" class - it only had two mammals when people colonized it, and they were a bat and a seal, both with plausible ways to get there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by NeilUnreal, posted 02-09-2003 8:22 PM NeilUnreal has not replied

  
NeilUnreal
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 18 (31809)
02-09-2003 8:54 PM


Sorry!, it was an oblique joke aimed at Sherlock Holmes fans. (I even wondered whether maybe lpetrich was deliberately setting it up.)
As you pointed out, Sumatra is on the continental side of Wallace's line.
-Neil

  
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