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Author | Topic: Evolution Logic | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 160 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I hope that this might help you.
So far we only have one sample of living things to study, and that is the pool of living things, and the remains of things that have lived, here on earth. So anything we say has to be taken with the unstated provision that what we are talking about is just the stuff we have seen so far. Someday we may find other life and all the rules may need to be rewritten to account for that new evidence. But for now, here is what we see. So far every lifeform we look at has some very basic similarities, the chemicals are the same, the building methods are the same, there really doesn't seem to be very much difference at the most basic level between humans and slime mold. Things like micro and macro, species or genus or order are simply arbitrary classifications that we assign for convenience and our human characteristic of putting stuff in boxes. Let me try a couple analogies. Consider the light spectrum. We see light and color in certain ranges. We all have a pretty good idea of the macro differences, we know blue from green. But that only works when the differences are large, as we move from blue to green we pass through a whole series of micro colors, until we get to one where we're not sure if it is blue, or green. They are all though just part of the visible light spectrum. There is no macro change between blue and green. Macro only comes in when the intervening micro color changes are removed. If they are present we see one continuous spread of all colors. We can step back a little further and look at the electromagnetic spectrum. Again, we can find macro differences, gamma rays, xrays, ultraviolet, visible, infrared, microwave and radio, but these are arbitrary name assignments we use to label those boxes we are so fond of. There is no intrinsic difference between any of them, they are all electromagnetic waves. As we look closely at the boundaries of any two adjacent classes it gets harder and harder to tell which box we should put it in. Is it red, or infra red? Is it violet or ultra violet? It's the same with living things. We can only apply the term macro when we ignore all of the micro steps inbetween. The differences are far more our perceptions and love of boxes than the properties of the things themselves. Edited by jar, : to fix subtitle Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Damouse Member (Idle past 5226 days) Posts: 215 From: Brookfield, Wisconsin Joined: |
"So I am asking about a situation where changing from one species to another would benefit better than in-species yet still allow enough time for it to work" (-dorkfrommarn)
(soon to be known as) Birds, growing wings? I believe in God, I just call it Nature
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nator Member (Idle past 2491 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Mmmmm....slime mold....
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Damouse Member (Idle past 5226 days) Posts: 215 From: Brookfield, Wisconsin Joined: |
well that blew the shnap outta the discussion....
-I believe in God, I just call it Nature -One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion. -People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men. -Religion is the opiate of the masses
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lfen Member (Idle past 4998 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
Schraf,
What is that?Looks like cheese to me. Is it really slime mould? You ever play the game Rogue? lfen
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2ice_baked_taters Member (Idle past 6172 days) Posts: 566 From: Boulder Junction WI. Joined: |
No, I gave the reasons why evolution occurs. I believe you meant to say that you described the mechanical and chemical aspects that shape the process we call evolution as we currently understand it.Why evolution occurs is a whole other animal subject to interpretation.
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nator Member (Idle past 2491 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Yes, it's cheese, but no, it's not really slime mold on the outside. It's a class of organism called "smear bacteria", most commonly B. Linens is used to ripen the class of cheeses called "washed rind". Alsatian Munster, Pont l'Eveque, Epoisses, and Vacherin Mont d'Or are some of the more famous of that type. Very funky smelling but not terribly strong tasting when cared for propery; they are slightly spicy, fruity and sometimes vegetal or meaty tasting.
quote: Nope. What it it? Edited by schrafinator, : fixing typo
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lfen Member (Idle past 4998 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
Rogue was an old ascii unix adventure game. Slime mould was the default food type and I think there were also killer slime moulds in the dungeon, it's sort of an old 'inside' joke. not important.
lfen
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2834 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
Why evolution occurs is a whole other animal subject to interpretation. I don't see why it is open to interpretation. Things don't have to have a reason. Besides, we know why evolution happens. Those "mechanical and chemical aspects that shape the process we call evolution" are the reasons for evolution occuring (if I remeber the post that you were replying to correctly).
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2ice_baked_taters Member (Idle past 6172 days) Posts: 566 From: Boulder Junction WI. Joined: |
I simply think that the word reason is a poor choice of words.
I don't see why it is open to interpretation. Things don't have to have a reason. Besides, we know why evolution happens. Those "mechanical and chemical aspects that shape the process we call evolution" are the reasons for evolution occuring (if I remeber the post that you were replying to correctly). A much better choice of words is perhaps not "the reason or reasons why"but HOW evolution happens as we understand it.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3964 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
[Off-topic]
Wasn't rogue the fore-runner of hack and then nethack? Slime-molds became the default food type of the wizard in hack as I remember.
[/off-topic]
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Damouse Member (Idle past 5226 days) Posts: 215 From: Brookfield, Wisconsin Joined: |
A much better choice of words is perhaps not "the reason or reasons why" but HOW evolution happens as we understand it. I've got that sinking feeling that comes when i've misinterpereted something. If you're asking do we know the reasons why evolution works, then the answer is random genetic mutations, leading into rare beneficial mutations which are almost always passed on because of the beneficial mutations tendency to give the animal that harbors it an egde. -I believe in God, I just call it Nature -One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion. -People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men. -Religion is the opiate of the masses
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Someone who cares Member (Idle past 6072 days) Posts: 192 Joined: |
"For the record, scientists have documented quite a few (at least several hundred) instances of speciation/macroevolution occuring."
Really? Could you give me some for macroevolution? "If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1726 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Welcome to the fray.
What would you consider macroevolution to involve? I'm not asking to be cute but to see what kind of evidence you are looking for. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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Someone who cares Member (Idle past 6072 days) Posts: 192 Joined: |
Well, macroevolution is when one kind of an organism supposedly evolves into another one. So, I would like if you could prove this, either by fossils, genetics, observation, or by something else to the sort. Like if you saw macroevolution in action. Or if you found that genetics would permit it. Or if you found a REAL fossil of a scale evolving into a feather. Or something else to the sort.
"If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown
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