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Author Topic:   What Does the Second Coming Entail?
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 91 of 238 (318639)
06-07-2006 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Legend
06-07-2006 8:32 AM


Legendary quirks
(with terms & conditions of course).
That you accept his invite you mean? Strange contortion of the English language that. Someone offers to give you something and you not accepting it is a term and condition of them offering it?
Somehow or other you have managed you contrive a situation where you are able to accept things that you do not beleive (which is not what accepting is). Or accept things "for the sake of argument" (which is not what accepting is either)
Edited by iano, : edit title
Edited by iano, : typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Legend, posted 06-07-2006 8:32 AM Legend has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by ringo, posted 06-07-2006 10:54 AM iano has replied
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Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 92 of 238 (318640)
06-07-2006 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Larni
06-07-2006 7:16 AM


Re: My hangups
Larni writes:
Are you saying that the xian god is a mean old bastard?
if you take the whole of the bible as the true word of God, then that's the only conclusion I can come to about God.
but don't take my word of it, read it for yourself.
P..S and when I say read it I mean read it throughout and in context, don't just pick the nice verses that make you feel warm and fuzzy inside, like a lot of Christians seem to do.
Edited by Legend, : added P.S

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 93 of 238 (318657)
06-07-2006 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Larni
06-07-2006 7:09 AM


Re: the whys whens and hows
Larni writes:
Could you point to the chapter and verse?
quote:
1 John 1:5 "God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all”
In the Bible (as in life), light corresponds to goodness and darkness corresponds to evil. God has no darkness in him and so it is impossible for him to do something evil. The thought cannot occur to him - for there is no darkness in him to suggest the thought as there is in us.
He can hate evil. But his hating is not like most of our hating - which stems from darkness. Some of our hatred gives a bit of a hint though. Take the acts of a paeodophile. We hate them because they are evil acts . It is not dark to hate evil in this case
"God cannot break his own rules" is a poor way of expressing it. God doesn't have any rules for himself, he just IS the way he is. His rules for us stem from the way he is. Better were it said that God cannot act in a way which is inconsistant with who he is.
Edited by iano, : change unlike to like

This message is a reply to:
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iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 94 of 238 (318683)
06-07-2006 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Legend
06-07-2006 8:41 AM


Con-text?
and when I say read it I mean read it throughout and in context,
In the context of what overarching principle Legend? That it is the word of God only means that man didn't make it up. But that isn't a context - that only means that what's written comes from God
But I applaud the advice to Larni - something which this tired old evangelist forgets to mention at time. Do read it all. You can pre-suppose that if it is the word of God then inconsistant it will not be. Apparent inconsistancy can be laid aside for a time using the simple technique known as "pointing the finger at my own limitations in getting it and not supposing there to be an inconsistancy because of those limitations"

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CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 95 of 238 (318702)
06-07-2006 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by iano
06-07-2006 8:59 AM


Re: the whys whens and hows
quote:
n the Bible (as in life), light corresponds to goodness and darkness corresponds to evil. God has no darkness in him and so it is impossible for him to do something evil.
Well there you have it - all the following is good.
quote:
Deuteronomy 7:1-2: "... the seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them."
Joshua 6:21: "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.
Joshua 10:40-41: "So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. And Joshua smote them from Kadesh-barnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon."
Deuteronomy 2:26-35 - Land of Heshbon "...we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain."
Exodus 12:29-30: "And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead."
Who wants to buy a bridge? I've got one for sale, one previous owner.
Oh wait I forgot the time God sent some bears to rip 42 children into shreads because they'd called someone baldly.
quote:
2 Kings 2:23-24: "And he [Elisha] went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

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Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Legend, posted 06-07-2006 12:00 PM CK has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 96 of 238 (318703)
06-07-2006 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by iano
06-07-2006 8:40 AM


Re: Legendary quirks
iano writes:
Somehow or other you have managed you contrive a situation where you are able to accept things that you do not beleive (which is not what accepting is).
Suppose you go down to pay your gas bill and the clerk tells you it's already been paid. You can believe it or not - it doesn't matter. Your "acceptance" of the gift is not even an issue.
You can't even refuse to accept it - it's a done deal. The debt is off the books - there is no way to put it back on.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by iano, posted 06-07-2006 8:40 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 06-07-2006 11:06 AM ringo has replied
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 97 of 238 (318704)
06-07-2006 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Legend
06-07-2006 8:32 AM


Re: God's quirk
Legend writes:
You see, it's pretty clear that God isn't like you and I whereas we can forgive, forget and move on, oh no, God wants to see some blood on the matt and only then he'll begin to think about forgiveness (with terms & conditions ofcourse).
Look at the History of human nature---specifically during times of war. I see no evidence of progressive humans but I DO see evidence of the same mistakes and imperfections being made by us time and time again.
I can agree with you guys about the O.T. God as a mean and vengeful one, but if viewed in the context of a warlike people (who were not His puppets, by the way) I can accept some of the conclusions.
The Second Coming...if literal...will only happen after we progressive and enlightened humans go through another series of wars that will leave us questioning our moral fiber and purpose.
Unless you think that without any sort of religion, we will all get along merrily and not fight any longer!

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 98 of 238 (318705)
06-07-2006 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by ringo
06-07-2006 10:54 AM


Re: Legendary quirks
Ringo writes:
Suppose you go down to pay your gas bill and the clerk tells you it's already been paid. You can believe it or not - it doesn't matter. Your "acceptance" of the gift is not even an issue.
You can't even refuse to accept it - it's a done deal. The debt is off the books - there is no way to put it back on.
Here and all this time I thought you were a strict behaviorist! You are crossing over into Grace County in the State of Forgiveness! Whats up with that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by ringo, posted 06-07-2006 10:54 AM ringo has replied

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Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 99 of 238 (318708)
06-07-2006 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by iano
06-07-2006 8:40 AM


Re: Legendary quirks
iano writes:
That you accept his invite you mean? Strange contortion of the English language that. Someone offers to give you something and you not accepting it is a term and condition of them offering it?
iano writes:
That you accept his invite you mean? Strange contortion of the English language that. Someone offers to give you something and you not accepting it is a term and condition of them offering it?
it was only a few posts ago that you, yourself, iano, said that we were all invited, we have the right to come in, no catches, remember ?
the invite has been issued. Fullstop. I can be courteous and send a written acceptance or I can just turn up at the door. This is up to me, but the invite still stands.
No catches, remember ?
you're not now saying that the condition is that we accept that his son dies for our sins,etc, or else we can't come in, are you ?
that sounds very much like a condition to me.
BTW, a few pages back you have an open *bump* post waiting for clarification.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by iano, posted 06-07-2006 8:40 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by iano, posted 06-07-2006 12:26 PM Legend has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 100 of 238 (318711)
06-07-2006 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by iano
06-07-2006 8:59 AM


Re: the whys whens and hows
iano writes:
He can hate evil. But his hating is not like most of our hating ......
just like his justness is not like most of our justness..
and his love is not like our love......
and his mercy is not like our mercy.....
again, read 2Pet 2:4-9 to understand what his justness, love and mercy are like.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by iano, posted 06-07-2006 8:59 AM iano has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 101 of 238 (318721)
06-07-2006 11:40 AM


now I'm getting it!
iano writes:
You can pre-suppose that if it is the word of God then inconsistant it will not be. Apparent inconsistancy can be laid aside for a time using the simple technique known as "pointing the finger at my own limitations in getting it and not supposing there to be an inconsistancy because of those limitations"
what a fantastic piece of advice!
If you think something doesn't make sense then just assume it's you being stupid and 'not getting it' - not that the text is a mangled old myth - heaven forbid!
we have to find a way to spread this to the children, we'll have a new generation full of intelligent, critical thinkers.
I challenge you Ian to read the Quran, following your own pre-supposition, as above.
You'll be a Musilm in no time!

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by iano, posted 06-07-2006 12:13 PM Legend has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 102 of 238 (318726)
06-07-2006 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by ringo
06-07-2006 10:54 AM


Gas mask
Suppose you go down to pay your gas bill and the clerk tells you it's already been paid. You can believe it or not - it doesn't matter. Your "acceptance" of the gift is not even an issue.
Does Bob own the Gas Co too? I'll pass on your analogy if you don't mind Ringo. We'd have to get into discussing the workings of utility companies and the rights of the consumer to manage their own account as they see fit otherwise

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by ringo, posted 06-07-2006 10:54 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 103 of 238 (318728)
06-07-2006 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Phat
06-07-2006 11:06 AM


Re: Legendary quirks
Phat writes:
You are crossing over into Grace County in the State of Forgiveness! Whats up with that?
I have always said that salvation is a done deal. My point here was that your belief in your salvation is irrelevant. You are "saved", whether you believe it or not.
That has no effect on the fact that we must behave correctly.
Back to our analogy: Suppose you leave the gas company office firmly believing that your bill is not paid. At home, you don't bother to turn on your furnace because you think the gas is turned off. You shiver through the night and two days later you're found frozen solid.
Your belief has no effect on whether or not your bill is paid. But your actions determine your fate.
Conversely, you can fervently believe that your bill is paid, but if you don't turn on the furnace, you'll still freeze to death.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
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Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 104 of 238 (318729)
06-07-2006 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by CK
06-07-2006 10:48 AM


God's love, mercy and justness
quote:
Exodus 12:29-30: "And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead."
those damned Egyptian babies were all sinners, they just had to pay! Or their fathers were anyway, so the babies deserved what they got! I'm sure they're all burning in hell as we speak!
...same goes for the cattle too.
damn those sinful calfs!

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by CK, posted 06-07-2006 10:48 AM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 105 of 238 (318731)
06-07-2006 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by iano
06-07-2006 11:57 AM


Re: Gas mask
iano writes:
I'll pass on your analogy if you don't mind Ringo.
And I'll pass on juggling flaming chainsaws, if you don't mind.
I'm about as good at that as you are at analogies.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
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