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Author
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Topic: Genesis 1 and 2: The Difference Between Created and Formed
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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You have to take into consideration that people who believe in a literal Bible believe the English Bible translations to be the preserved word of God. So, any attack on a literal Bible can be aimed at the KJV Bible, and any response can be made with it likewise. Most literalists I'm aware of, including myself, believe that the Bible is word-for-word exact only in the originals. I also believe that God preserves the meaning of His revelation through all translations, but translation by its nature cannot render a perfect word-for-word meaning from one language to another. There are too many differences between languages. I do think the original King James had a lot going for it: A great number of great scholars who were also spiritually fine Christians did the translating and they had a huge array of texts to work from, in many different languages including earlier English texts, other European languages, Middle Eastern languages, Roman of course, as well as Hebrew and Greek. I still think the KJV is the best to date, but its archaic language has to be continually updated. The Bible has to be read in the language people actually speak or it's useless.
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 29 of 210 (320314)
06-10-2006 11:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 27 by riVeRraT
06-08-2006 11:28 PM
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The account in Genesis 1 is the chronology of Creation. The account in Genesis 2 is not about the chronology of Creation at all. The Creation story is over, summed up in fact at the beginning of chapter 2, in "these are the generations . . . The account here is about specifics of Adam's relation to the Creation, beginning with the plants. About literalism, the text doesn't have to be word-for-word exact in the target languages to be the word of God. As I said, it is the MEANING that is the point. You don't get exact word-for-word from one language to another, but a good translator aims for accurate conveyance of the meaning of the text. Good Bible teachers study the original languages to arrive at their own assessment of the given translation's success at conveying the meaning. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by riVeRraT, posted 06-08-2006 11:28 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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and in regards to plants, it literally says (in the original...) adam was created before plants. Please give the verse and the evidence for this, or repeat it if necessary. Thanks. Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic Warning Edited by AdminPD, : Removal of Warning
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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and in regards to plants, it literally says (in the original...) adam was created before plants. As I asked in Message 36 please point me to where you proved this.
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 43 of 210 (321525)
06-14-2006 4:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 41 by LinearAq
06-14-2006 2:41 PM
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Probably Gen 2:4 through 2:7 all read as the same sentence.
quote:
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
There's nothing there to suggest that Adam was created before the plants were.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 41 by LinearAq, posted 06-14-2006 2:41 PM | | LinearAq has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: context
And the people went out of Egypt "a mixed multitude," meaning some Egyptians feared Jehovah and escaped judgement by the pascal lamb. God's word to the twelve tribes therefore also became a benefit to the reverent Egyptians who heeded it, believed it, and obeyed it.
ever read the census in the book of numbers? it's tediuous, i admit. tell me though, how many egyptians left among the jews during the exodus? The way it is worded, the text that speaks of the mixed multitude has to include some other than the Hebrews. Who else but Egyptians?
quote:
Exd 12:37-38 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot [that were] men, beside children. And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, [even] very much cattle.
This is the standard understanding. One commentary:
quote:
a. The children of Israel journeyed: Assembling together at Succoth, about 600,000 men (besides children of women) left Egypt. The count of six hundred thousand men makes for a total population of perhaps two million that left Egypt for the Promised Land.b. A mixed multitude went up with them: Not all of the 600,000 were Israelites. Many Egyptians (and perhaps other foreigners) went with them, because the God of Israel demonstrated that He was more powerful that the gods of the Egyptians. Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible
And, in discussions with orthodox Jews I've run across the claim that it was this mixed multitude, these Egyptians, who caused the Israelites to sin with the golden calf, since according to them the israelites would otherwise have been true to God. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: those pesky off-topic egyptians
uh huh, tell me another one. there's a lot of content in the old testament about the israelites flirting with idols, and disobeying god. they are portrayed as "a stiffnecked people" and kvetching all the time. That's what I always say to my orthodox friend. He insists they were special people or God wouldn't have chosen them. I quote where God clearly says He didn't choose them for any reason except His own sovereign will. He quotes back where God says He knew Abraham would be faithful and teach his children about Him. I say if they were so special how come they had to wander in the wilderness for 40 years and die there and not get to see the promised land. He says God punished them a lot harder than He ever punished anyone else because they were such special good people. I just roll my eyes. But this is very definitely off topic now.
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