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Author Topic:   Is Theism arrogant?
PaulK
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Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
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Message 29 of 60 (319143)
06-08-2006 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by The Tiger
06-08-2006 1:28 PM


quote:
Don't most ahteists especially scientists, make arrogant claims that there is no possibility of God and theists are all wrong and such?
I'm not aware of any evidence that most atheists claim that there is no chance that they could be wrong on the existence of gods in general. Certainly some, do, but many don't

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 35 of 60 (319417)
06-09-2006 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by jmrozi1
06-09-2006 12:41 AM


Re: atheism
quote:
Note that my concern is that you aren”t keeping agnosticism and atheism completely independent; however, if you can provide a definition to these concepts while keeping them independent, I”ll be happy to hear it.
THey often AREN'T treated completely independantly and to the best of my knowledge Huxley coind the term "agnostic" he never intended that atheism and agnosticism should be defined as bewing mutually exclusive.
However if we use the common definition of atheism as the belief that God does not exist and the common definition of agnosticism as refusing to take a position on the existence of God then they are completely distinct.
quote:
For atheism it is that God can”t exist, and for theism it”s that he does exist. It”s as simple as that.
But atheists don't usually make that assumption. The idea that God does not exist is usually a conclusion, not an assumption.
As I final point, I will not that there are also arrogant agnostics who like to define themselves as superior. The idea that atheism requires certainty seems to be an invention of those people.d

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 Message 34 by jmrozi1, posted 06-09-2006 12:41 AM jmrozi1 has replied

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 37 of 60 (319428)
06-09-2006 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by jmrozi1
06-09-2006 3:51 AM


Re: atheism
quote:
If atheism and agnosticism aren't treated as being completely independent, then I would have to debate atheism as being arrogant any more than agnosticism and theism as being arrogant. In this light, there are branches of each belief system that necessitate arrogance, however, to call the entire system arrogant for this reason would be like defining a zebra as black.
I would hesitate to classify atheism, agnosticism or theism as a "belief system". Theism is the belief that there is one or more Gods, atheism is at most the belief that there are no Gods, and agnosticism is about belief itself.
So far as the title of this thread goes I can only say that I have often viewed behaviour that I regard as arrogant in fundamentalists and I find it plausible that the claim to sole truth found in monotheistic religions might contribute to that arrogance.

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 Message 36 by jmrozi1, posted 06-09-2006 3:51 AM jmrozi1 has replied

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 40 of 60 (319551)
06-09-2006 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by jmrozi1
06-09-2006 12:27 PM


Re: atheism
I would say that there are theistic and atheistic beleif systems, but that theism and atheism themselves are probably better classified as primitive beliefs. (For an atheistic example both Marxism and Objectivism are fiercely atheistic - yet strongly opposed on many other issues).
Agnosticism is harder to classify (partly because the definitions are more diverse) although there could be agnostic belief systems (Hinyana Buddhism might qualify). But if it is taken as the view that the evidence and arguments for and against the existence of gods are not sufficient to make a decision then I would classify that as a single belief (although it could be argued to be the product of a system, it does not matter what that system might be).e

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