What are you? EvC poll

------Like "mind", "information" is an emergent property of material systems.------Material systems are 'systems' because of the 'information' (physical laws and cosmological constants)that systematize them. They do not systematize themselves. The universe as a system is in a state of entropy. And entropy is '+'increasing (2nd law of thermodynamics).If the system has evolved as you must necessarily presuppose with your 'interpretation' of the information, then the system would be less sytematized (ordered) in the past, because of the '-'decrease in entropy.An entropic system (such as ours)cannot have been less ordered (systematized)in the past. In the past, entropy decreases not increases, and we would see '+' more order (systemization). Our world is coming apart, not coming together.Before something can come apart, it must start out together or, 'whole' (the root word for Holy).------Or rather, "information" is the name given to the abstract concept which is correspondent, to an emergent property of material objects within a system, which may affect the operation of the system.(I think)------Thinking is good. We should keep thinking very carefully... Information is correspondant to the information that -is- 'the emergent property.' We recognize an objective pattern, because it corrosponds to what we already know. You, like 'nwr', are making the intelligent design case in the same manner as the boys from the Discovery Institute. You should have actually listened to what they were saying.------There's no point in looking to the DI for understanding of materialist or naturalist philosophies they don't understand them, nor do they want to.------Nobody understands materialist or naturalist philosophies because they are not understandable (i.e. nobody can understand why 2+2=7). The most notable examples are the materialist and naturalist philosophers themselves. The concepts are an abstraction, not a coherent philosophy (truth). They are a wishes, but not facts.------Much of "reality" contains such, if they were a problem for naturalist/materialist/mechanist philosophies, then these philosophies would have been forgotten long ago.------They are not forgotton, because to move beyond them requires a man to acknowledge God. To acknowledge God, means to look in the mirror and see the truth! They do not want the truth, they want to keep their sin. they don't need God, because they are God by implication.------On the other hand if you're a Dualist, can you point out a single example of the second component of reeality? Matter and energy are one thing, what else is there?------The logical and reasonable Holy Spirit of God. Matthew 12:31
"And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."------(Please don't say mind, it's already included as a property of matter, and unless there's reason to believe otherwise I (for one) won't.)------I didn't say mind, I said Spirit. It's not mind and matter. It's mind matter (body), and Spirit. The Spirit is the missing link! The link that contains the answer to the 'information' that is the origin of 'wholeness', that we are now deteriorating from.Isaiah 1:18
"Come now, let us reason together," says the Lord. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool."Keep thinking and play for keeps, Rob Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic Warning

Welcome To EvC Rob,Your post is off topic for this thread. Please do not continue this line of discussion.Since you are new to this board, I suggest that you familiarize yourself with the functions of EvC by using the Practice Makes Perfect Forum.

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It is easier to differentiate your comments from your opponents by putting theirs in a quote box, such as this one.

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I also strongly suggest you read the Forum Guidelines. Specifically 1, 2, and 10. Staying on topic and arguing the position not the person are very important here at EvC.In the purple signature box below, you'll find some links that will help make your journey here pleasant.Pay particular attention to our Forum Guidelines and all will go well.Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.Again welcome and happy debating.

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Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate

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Information needs a substrate to exist.Information is a property of ordered energy and matter.You also need a brain to analyse the information to make it meaningful.If every conscious creature in the universe spontaneously died alll the 'information' in the universe would become 'data'. Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic Warning

monist 16
Phi rickJB Larni RandyFeagley
Scharfinator Buzzsaw Shh
BrennaKimi Iano BradMcfall
Omnivorous Chronos Lfen
EZscience Malachi Mr. Jack
Dualist 4
Phatboy
Truth Lover
Riverrat
Catholic Scientist
Undecided
Robrohan
NWR

I'm a dualist for the following reasons:Many top physicists and other scientists have theorized and concluded and even have evidence that there are other "dimensions" to our universe, more than just 3 or 4.Vast numbers of people (including me) have had speritual experiences with "entities" that
could be called speritual (Ghosts, demons, sperits, whatever you want to call them).Near Death ExperiencesAlso, there's many scientists who are very religious and believei n the supernatural and speritual so there's some qualitative evidence.

You missed my very short "monist" post. But I'll get over it.