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Author Topic:   Human Life Span & Evolution
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 71 (315867)
05-29-2006 5:02 AM


Has it not been that human life span has been gradually increasing? Has gradually increased?
The Bible gives life span in hundreds of years, but how can that be? With evolution at work, shouldn't life span generally increase over a period of time?
Consider, Person A has a long life span, and person B has a short one. The life span of both people is determined by their DNA--it either determines their ability to survive longer, or in some other way the length of life they will be able to live. Because person A has a longer life span, he/she will be able to produce more children (all of which themselves have the genetics for a longer life span). Person B doesn't live as long, and so he/she can only produce a smaller number of children, who unfortunately for them all have the short-life-span genetics.
So, eventually the person A lineage not only is able to outnumber, but outlast the person B lineage. Person B's lineage will dry and fade away. We go from having an average life span of A+B (long + short), to having one that is only A (long).
If what's-his-face was living back in the land of God until the ripe old age of 400 something, then why am I not expected to keep kicking until the year 2956?
Does any of this make sense? Is there any explanation a Bible-believer could give me as to why my time is limited to only a few dozen years? And please, oh God, do not tell me it's the Fall.
This is all my hypothesis, and I have no solid evidence for it yet.
Jon
Edited by Invictus, : added part about not having evidence
Edited by Invictus, : removed comment to admins

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by ramoss, posted 05-30-2006 10:11 AM Jon has replied
 Message 23 by watzimagiga, posted 06-02-2006 9:22 AM Jon has replied
 Message 34 by RAZD, posted 06-03-2006 7:44 PM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 71 (316309)
05-30-2006 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by ramoss
05-30-2006 10:11 AM


Okay, so my fanciful theory is flat-out wrong, and from the start I've believed the stories to be just that: stories. However, I've never seen a reason given by a Bible-believer to explain why people suddenly started living far shorter lives.
Trék

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by ramoss, posted 05-30-2006 10:11 AM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by GDR, posted 05-30-2006 7:08 PM Jon has not replied
 Message 8 by Coragyps, posted 05-30-2006 7:48 PM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 71 (317099)
06-02-2006 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by watzimagiga
06-02-2006 9:22 AM


I've heard similar, and that was always my understanding as to why human life was limited. The problem is that this is in direct conflict with the Bible.
What can the Bible-believers say? Why did God suddenly decide to not let people live so long? In my opinion, it was just added by the writers so they could explain why we don't live that long.
All the scientific explanations seem to do me fine... it's the Biblical one that doesn't make any sense.
Trék

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by watzimagiga, posted 06-02-2006 9:22 AM watzimagiga has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by watzimagiga, posted 06-03-2006 12:12 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 71 (317163)
06-03-2006 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by watzimagiga
06-03-2006 12:55 AM


AdminJar writes:
If you believe that folk did live longer at some time, you need to bring forward your evidence in support.
Precisely. I am trying to grasp this one. There isn't any physical evidence of longer-living people in the past. All the evidence seems to show that people lived longer in the past.
watzimagiga writes:
I know in your previous posts you did say about not mentioning the fall. I dont think it was the fall specifically because the life spans only started getting shorter quite a while after Adam. The bible does tell us however that sin causes death. A Biblical explanation could be that as the people of the world became more corrupt and disobedient to God. Then earlier death was a natural result. The belief is held by many christians that the only reason we die is because of sin. If Jesus had continued to live a sinless life he could have lived forever, same with Adam. Man was initially created to live forever, we only die because of sin.
So, if more sin = shorter lives, than why do Christians claim the world is so full of sin, yet lifespans are continuing to increase?
Like Jar said, evidence evidence evidence... that's what it's all about. A little Bible scripture is perfectly fine with me as long as you put up enough evidence to support it.
Trék

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by watzimagiga, posted 06-03-2006 12:55 AM watzimagiga has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by watzimagiga, posted 06-03-2006 6:04 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 31 by watzimagiga, posted 06-03-2006 6:10 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 71 (317164)
06-03-2006 5:30 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by watzimagiga
06-03-2006 12:55 AM


I dont think he was asking for a scientifical explanation, he was more asking what bible believers think.
Yeah, sort of, but I'm also interested in hearing the evidence behind the claims.
Trék

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by watzimagiga, posted 06-03-2006 12:55 AM watzimagiga has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 71 (317409)
06-03-2006 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by watzimagiga
06-03-2006 9:45 PM


Re: huh?
Fair enough, but my point was that in evolutionay terms its doesnt make sense to believe that people could have at one stage lived 900 years.
Precisely my point! Why do Believers insist on it being so without the evidence? I mean, even puting evolution aside for a second, 900-year spans don't make sense!
Surely long life is an advantage.
Only if you're able to reproduce during that extra-long span. If not, you're almost in the way: using up resources that should go to reproduction-capable beings.
I think I am understanding how only life up to reproduction (and perhaps successful child rearing after) matters in evolution.
Trék

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by watzimagiga, posted 06-03-2006 9:45 PM watzimagiga has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by lfen, posted 06-03-2006 11:59 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 71 (317433)
06-04-2006 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by lfen
06-03-2006 11:59 PM


Re: huh?
Old people were their knowledge base and they were important. They carried knowledge that could help the tribe survive disasters of rare occurances.
Wouldn't giving the knowledge over to someone else and letting the old woman die be more "efficient." It sounds like they did what they did out of concern and love for her.
Trék

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by lfen, posted 06-03-2006 11:59 PM lfen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by lfen, posted 06-04-2006 1:29 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 71 (320725)
06-12-2006 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by RAZD
06-08-2006 8:11 PM


Re: Age at Death estimates
I'm just courious. If an early human was dated to have lived 800+ years by modern dating methods, would that date be scientifically accepted, or would it be thrown out as being incorrect. Would the archaeologists discard it because it's unreasonable compared to the majority of ages?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by RAZD, posted 06-08-2006 8:11 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by EZscience, posted 06-12-2006 11:46 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 66 by RAZD, posted 06-12-2006 8:06 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 71 (321948)
06-15-2006 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by RAZD
06-12-2006 8:06 PM


Re: Age at Death estimates
The fossil would be more likely regarded as deformed and diseased than old.
So even if the individual had lived an 800-year life, we may not be willing to admit it?
In order to arrive at a theoretical age of 800 (normal?) years for a fossil there would have to be some rather extraordinary aspects -- all teeth there, but worn down to a nub, severe arthritis, the loss of all cartilege in joints and the subsequent wear on the bones, etcetera.
So if the individual had been an extrememely healthy 800-year old man, we wouldn't see these signs. Would we then date the sample as being very young?
This is based on applying the tests for age on the fossil to actually test out to 800 years old, rather than taking 800 years and seeing how they would not test to the right ages.
So then the answer is "yes?" If we did date an individual to be 800 years old, we would look for other explanations instead of accepting the 800-year old number.
Trék

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by RAZD, posted 06-12-2006 8:06 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by watzimagiga, posted 07-19-2006 11:36 PM Jon has not replied
 Message 69 by RAZD, posted 07-20-2006 8:14 PM Jon has not replied

  
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