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Author Topic:   General discussion of moderation procedures - Part 7
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 2 of 304 (320555)
06-11-2006 3:09 PM


Request Admins comment on PEH thread closure
There is a serious fly in the ointment of your position Adminmoose. And it is this:
Admin writes:
Today we're introducing a new forum: Showcase. This forum will host those with the most controversial or unusual viewpoints, giving them an opportunity to showcase their ideas in discussion with selected EvC Forum members.
..the goal is to constructively explore these ideas to discover their basic soundness.
In inviting John A. Davison, Admin is formally acknowledging ("formally" I say - Percys opinion may be the same as yours) that the soundness or otherwise of Johns ideas has YET to be decided.
Yet you agree with Crashs comments (and presumably similar comments in the closed thread under discussion) which say the case is already closed. You are in effect accusing Admin of having scored an own goal
This is why I asked for Admins comment. I am not trying to be a pain in the ass. The request stands.
.
.
.
.
.
To Admin:
My case for having the the "Lets get this PEH show on the road" thread re-opened goes as follows. In the OP of that thread there is nothing which suggests that the wisdom or otherwise of my suggestion is an issue for debate. Suggestions on how to improve the attempt at petition were all that was asked for. Patently, any individual could choose or choose not to take up on my suggestion.
http://EvC Forum: Let's get this PEH show on the road. A Petition -->EvC Forum: Let's get this PEH show on the road. A Petition
Thereafter a number of posters partake in off-topic knocking of the idea on the basis that the case for PEH is already closed. Given the stated goal of the Showcase thread as it pertains to PEH, their comments run counter to the formal Admin line (as outlined above in my response to Adminmoose). Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion, their opinion runs counter to a decision made by yourself on the soundness or otherwise of PEH on promoting it in the Showcase forum.
A few problems with the Administrator response in closing the thread:
The anti-PEH comment received no warning to say that the official EvC line held that the soundness or otherwise of PEH was open to question. And no warning that such opinion was not a grounds for objecting to an OP dealing obliqely with PEH. It was left to me to point out that there was a place to debate PEH if that is what they felt like doing.
No one received a warning that the soundness or otherwise of PEH was not an issue which dealt with the OP. Such comments were miles off topic.
The decision to close was made at message 15 by AdminJar. The rationale given "This thread seems about as pointless as any we have had in awhile." was patently bogus. The point of the thread was as obvious as the nose on your face. Subsequent enquiry brought out various AdminJar/Moose opinion which never dealt with the subject of the OP nor the official line taken on PEH by Admin.
I hold that there were no adequate grounds to close the thread and that Admin action was inappropriate. I request that the thread be re-opened so that the issues actually contained within the OP can be dealt with further.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.
Edited by iano, : getting Admin/Percy balance right
Edited by iano, : Case for re-opening thread directed at Admin

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 06-11-2006 3:12 PM iano has replied
 Message 7 by iano, posted 06-11-2006 4:12 PM iano has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 4 of 304 (320558)
06-11-2006 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by crashfrog
06-11-2006 3:12 PM


Re: Request Admins comment on PEH thread closure
See modifed post above with reasons for the modification. That is my last comment to you here Crash. This is not a general discussion forum.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 06-11-2006 3:12 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by CK, posted 06-11-2006 3:40 PM iano has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 7 of 304 (320574)
06-11-2006 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by iano
06-11-2006 3:09 PM


Re: Request Admins comment on PEH thread closure
Message 2 has had a case for re-opening of the closed thread added. It is addressed to Admin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by iano, posted 06-11-2006 3:09 PM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Admin, posted 06-11-2006 7:46 PM iano has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 9 of 304 (320720)
06-12-2006 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Admin
06-11-2006 7:46 PM


Re: Request Admins comment on PEH thread closure
I sought an explanation regarding the reason for closing the PEH thread. Whilst you didn't give one you do seem to be saying the following:
You are happy that anyone take up my suggestion and attempt to recruit D&D (by way of petition) to come debate at EvC. Are you equally happy that they attempt to recruit in order that D&D seek entry into the Showcase subject of PEH - as per Johns request.
I understand and respect your desire that that people didn't act in such a way so as to make is seem that they themselves represent EvC; that they propose EvC as a neutral venue.
It seems that a request that this desire of yours be followed can be simply added to the OP (which generally sought suggestions as to how the petition might be better framed)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Admin, posted 06-11-2006 7:46 PM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Admin, posted 06-12-2006 9:13 AM iano has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 11 of 304 (320750)
06-12-2006 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Admin
06-12-2006 9:13 AM


Re: Request Admins comment on PEH thread closure
A reasonable accomodation would be the reopening of the thread. I'm not saying that a petition would achieve anything but it is very little skin of any interested bodies nose to try. Cut n' paste a standard letter and click? A few seconds work for the average poster here.
In addition, a comment from yourself that the idea has your own formal imprimatur as a way to raise the profile of Showcase (which says nothing about your own personal view on PEH or John or the effectiveness of petition) might dissolve the tendencey for some of the less constructive comments
In addition you might view the OP and provide your input and preferances as to how this thing might take float - included of non-representation of EvC.
In addition you might flag the message to John so that he can provide most effective email links to D&D
Whatever ones worldview or postion on petition, I think a few seconds of peoples time is a pittance to ask given what might be achieved. There is nothing stopping any member mailing others, ex-EvC, who might be interested in such a debate
Why not attempt to raise the profile of EvC? Its in all our interests

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Admin, posted 06-12-2006 9:13 AM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by NosyNed, posted 06-12-2006 9:58 AM iano has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 13 of 304 (320754)
06-12-2006 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by NosyNed
06-12-2006 9:58 AM


Re: Dawkins? or ?
As for anyone debating JAD: it would only be for amusement. I think, however, that doing so is a bit "off" as he is clearly a delusional individual and should not be toyed with in that way. It just isn't kind.
This is a neat way of saying the the Showcase is, in CK's terminology, a zoo. The official Admin position as detailed in his rationale behind the Showcase, is that the jury is out on PEH NosyNed. In member-mode you are free to disagree with that stance.
Let's be clear iano. If it were possible to get Dawkins or Dembski to participate here it would only be against each other. There are other more visible forums where they could do the same thing. It is nuts to think they would bother with this one.
Only one is required to debate John. I cannot comment on the relative merits of EvC as a) I am not all that familiar with all the other forums available and b) I am not a scientist to be able to evaluate the quality of the science-like here.
Your lack of willingness to even try however, a characteristic which has never achieved anything of note, is noted
There is certainly no foundation in his ravings. If there were he'd manage to do better against those who at least put in an effort to talk to him rationally.
Why is the Showcase thread still open NN? Either Admin agrees with you and is merely a zookeeper. Or, he formally disagrees with you and his motivations are formally noble. Anyone can sit on the fence and throw rocks.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by NosyNed, posted 06-12-2006 9:58 AM NosyNed has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 48 of 304 (327914)
06-30-2006 9:28 PM


Has EvC changed your beliefs? No
At ca. 10pm Nwr posts a stop sign
At ca. 11pm Lfen ignores/doesn't see the stop sign - not suspended
At 1:12am I click on a link to Lfens response to a previous post and Lfens response appears - I have no reason to scroll up to the Stop sign above. I reply. I am given a short suspension for ignoring (as opposed to not seeing the stop sign). Poo happens.
At 1:27am Lfen ignores/doesn't see either the stop sign or my banned tag and responds to my response. And isn't suspended. He is still on line at the time.
Can you enlighten me AdminNwr

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by AdminJar, posted 06-30-2006 9:30 PM iano has replied
 Message 52 by AdminNWR, posted 07-01-2006 8:46 AM iano has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 50 of 304 (327916)
06-30-2006 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by AdminJar
06-30-2006 9:30 PM


Re: Has EvC changed your beliefs? No
Why not for the second offence? Surely this is flying in the face of Admin?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by AdminJar, posted 06-30-2006 9:30 PM AdminJar has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 67 of 304 (328292)
07-02-2006 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by lfen
07-02-2006 2:37 PM


Re: I got suspended? Where, when, what for?
Same happened me Lfen. I clicked to a response, the warning sat above out of view and I replied to your post. And got suspended.
The onus must probably be on the off topic poster to ensure there is no warning rather than admin figuring out ways to ensure the warning is seen.
Let the off topic-er beware!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by lfen, posted 07-02-2006 2:37 PM lfen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by lfen, posted 07-02-2006 3:09 PM iano has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 71 of 304 (328609)
07-03-2006 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Brian
07-03-2006 3:50 PM


Re: The Critic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Brian, posted 07-03-2006 3:50 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Brian, posted 07-03-2006 4:57 PM iano has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 78 of 304 (328826)
07-04-2006 5:35 PM


Petty or not?
It is no secret that Jar and Faith are anything but bosom buddies. Seems to me that a letter of the law is invoked with some glee here (given the general tone of the posts in question)
Potm isn't really the forum for it - but I thought it worthy of consideration nonetheless

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 84 of 304 (329043)
07-05-2006 6:08 PM


Oh Johnny Boy...the pipes, the pipes are calling
Pretty heavy stuff going on down at Showcase with John A Davison. Whatever about the rebuttals it seems that he IS the only hand-on-heart published scientist around here (on the matter in question)
My own verdict: even though I might not at all agree on his conclusions about God (John seems ever so limited in scope on the matter) he does stand head and shoulders above all here gathered in terms of out and out...I hesitate to say... but not for long... balls
And him 78 years old. Shame on us all.
To let things limp along to the 300 limit and let it all quietly slip away would (though few might ever know it) speak volumes
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by CK, posted 07-05-2006 6:11 PM iano has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 87 of 304 (329046)
07-05-2006 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by pink sasquatch
07-05-2006 6:10 PM


Re: Showcase access?
With the post count as it is PK it may be a case of "too little too late" - if Johns assertion that he is not allowed general privileges is accurate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by pink sasquatch, posted 07-05-2006 6:10 PM pink sasquatch has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by pink sasquatch, posted 07-05-2006 6:17 PM iano has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 88 of 304 (329048)
07-05-2006 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by CK
07-05-2006 6:11 PM


Re: Oh Johnny Boy...the pipes, the pipes are calling
I mean published scientist at all. Maybe you know who the people are behind the monikers. I don't. For all we know we could be a load of Walmart shelf stackers chatting amongst ourselves (not that there is anything in the least denigrating to be said about Walmart shelf stackers)
{AbE} and its not like a little bit of kerfuffle would put off the average poster here. Nay. I sense fear
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by CK, posted 07-05-2006 6:11 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by CK, posted 07-05-2006 6:20 PM iano has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 91 of 304 (329051)
07-05-2006 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by pink sasquatch
07-05-2006 6:17 PM


Re: Showcase access?
Active engagment has IMHO, been somewhat less than forthcoming. The gay abandon with which discussion has been generally entered in upon (in this posters experience) has been all but mute in Showcase.
One of Johns demands (and it seems a reasonable one to me) is to have a persons identity revealed. Bye Bye PK...Hello...?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by pink sasquatch, posted 07-05-2006 6:17 PM pink sasquatch has not replied

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