Opinions and conclusions about Religion and God.

What have you learned concerning your overall views about Religion in general and God, specifically?Everyone is allowed to comment here, be ye atheist, theist, deist, or MEist.I'll start:Growing up, I never really gave religion too much thought. My parents went to church as a social outlet, (which is what most people do) and God was a personal belief that in their generation was never discussed much.13 years ago, I got saved or at least thought strongly that I did. My conclusion is that I was definitely changed and that for the first time in my life I knew that I knew that I knew that God was real.Later, after running the gambit of organized religion and questioning everything that I had previously concluded about it, I can say that I Believe:

That God is real and personal. (This despite not having actually felt Him for quite awhile since I left the church functions)
Knowing that this is a belief and a relative fact personal only to me...(Kinda like my parents, who kept it to themselves)

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Humans are all loved by God, and although I'm not convinced that everyone is automatically saved I can find no flaw in the possibility of such a reality. It still boils down to individual profession and belief, however. It would be as if there were a Grandma that adopted everyone on earth as her grandchildren. We may be all related to her, but it would mean nothing unless we actually knew who she was. (would it?)

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The inconsistencies in Biblical literalism are secondary to the philosophies, implications, and reactions that we have to the character of Jesus Christ. Christ is the center of the Bible and no amount of excuse concerning an evil O.T. God or any other finger-pointing absolves any individual from dealin with the central question: (From Christ) Who do you say that I am?

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I think that people need to put all of the arguments aside and simply love each other. Whether or not we are doing it in the name of Christ, Buddha, or the Symphony Orchestra is not as important as whether we are doing it for selfish reasons or for loving, selfless reasons. (Christ Is Love, remember?)

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Faith/Belief or Coffee House>>> Your pick, admin.

I once had a friend, Gerard. He was an adept Martial Arts guy, and also a lifelong Catholic. I was attending one of those charismatic churches where people get "slain in the spirit", which is questionable as to its authenticity and biblical precedent.Anyway, I had myself been knocked down a few times, and my verdict was that it was either genuine or a strong power of suggestion.....Gerard, whom nobody could knock over, went down like a sack of potatoes and was himself amazed at the event....He briefly became a very devout Protestant, switched to Eastern Orthodoxy and became an apprentice to an Orthodox Bishop in Europe, then switched finally back to Roman Catholicism....much more practical, less mystical, and certainly not heretical,(from his view).Observations of others, either personally or anecdotally, often stirs my faith. (Yes, I believe the stories true.)Bill Bright told of this story:As Pastor John Aker boarded a DC-10 at Newark Airport, the plane was nearly empty. The computer, however, had assigned him a seat next to a man named Richard. Once airborne, the two began talking.

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Richard had just come from the Sloan Kettering Institute for Cancer Research. His condition: skin cancer. The doctors had given him ten months to live, at best. He was going home to Nebraska.

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"May I tell you about something that changed my life?" asked John.

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Richard nodded. John then explained the way of salvation, later asking, "Will you trust Jesus for your future for what lies beyond the grave for you?"

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Richard clutched his hand and said, "Pray with me."

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Right there, 10,000 feet over Chicago, Richard gave his heart to Christ.

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Months later, John again boarded a plane at Newark. This time he sat next to an elderly woman who was on her way to Beatrice, Nebraska. As they talked, John was amazed to learn that this was Richard's mother! She told him that her son was growing in the Lord, and that she had known Christ a long time.

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"I'm so encouraged," said Richard's mother.

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"Yes, and I'm inspired," said John, "that Richard has followed through and that God arranged for us to sit together."

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The woman replied, "You know, this wasn't my seat. Just before you came on the plane a woman asked me to change seats with her!" Edited by Phat, : additionsEdited by Phat, : No reason given.

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“There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way” --C.S.Lewis

Ian, please let people talk in this thread without preaching to everyone of them!Edited by Phat, : title

What have you learned concerning your overall views about Religion in general and God, specifically? One thing for sure. Religion is not logical, although I believe that the idea of a Creator is entirely logical. The problem that vexes my heart a bit (just a wee bit! ) these days is the Pastors and teachers whom I DO trust and whom are otherwise very intelligent people who are not political activists, good with their families and other peoples families as well...in fact, the only thing they all share is a firm and unbending belief in Biblical inerrency and literalism. I personally never have seen God as something I conjured up. IMHO, He exists. Its a choice of belief, not of imagination. I certainly never conjured up the first overwhelming waves of emotion and awareness that washed over me when I first got saved. I agree with you, however, that expecting God to be a sugar daddy or a genie is NOT the right way to approach a relationship with a Deity. Religion most certainly DOES have many negative influences. What do you know?? Brother Ian and I agree totally on this point! ....and, as we well know, people never do God like God does God! You are well on your way to being cured of religion! Keep loving Jesus, Rat! I know what you mean, Brenn. For me, I turned away from the religious people and concentrated on talking and communing (through prayer and quiet time) to God alone. He has yet to let me down,even though He won't let me win the lottery! Don't believe everything you read, Rev! As for groupthink, I totally agree that many if not MOST Christians never actually think for themselves until after they pull back from the trappings of organized religion. Then, perhaps, armed with wisdom and a better relationship with God outside of the show, the Christians can reunite and pray as equals, not merely mouthing the words on a big screen! Im SO glad that you say probably, Kermie! I think that you not only engage your thinking process but that you married it! Inseparable, you two! I got saved because I was touched by God. I never could differentiate which of the three persons of God touched me, but logic says it was the Holy Spirit. The Bible confirms some of my beliefs but never originates them. He is that personal, for me. (remember that God has existed long before the Bible!) So many questions! Why can't we just accept that we will know some day but not today? I totally understand what you are saying! I look at it as "The price of seperation is death". Sin=seperation. The whole point that God wants us to know is that like a fish out of a fishtank, we can't live without Him...yet He would rather that we willfully acknowledge Him and enjoy the water! I like your stuff, cowboy! I agree that humans do not explain God except unto our own image, usually. I think, however, that without God, we will never explain the mysteries of not only the universe, but of our own inner universes. You were a smart 13 year old! That just proves that humans are seperated from their source, especially the religious ones! You can say that again!

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“There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way” --C.S.Lewis

Bill Bright was a trustworthy source. Google him and see what you get.

*sigh* I heard a lot of personal anecdotes about the man after he died. Many different sources and all of whom portrayed a well respected man. Of course I don't expect you to acknowledge him based on my word any more than I acknowledge him based on the words of a few...but if you had heard the eulogies, you would know what I mean. BTW why are you so darn skeptical, Schraff? There ARE honest Christians, you know.

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“There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way” --C.S.Lewis

You have a point, ramoss, but you know as well as I that the integrity and compassion (or the lack thereof) of a few campus volunteers can hardly be used to mirror the integrity of the founder.Christians have scruples, and even among our own kind, we see the sharks. We know Pat Robertson has unexcusible flaws. We know the wolves among the sheep. We also know when a man shows above average integrity. Dr. Bill Bright was such a man. If you can't see or accept my assertion, lets just drop Bright from our discussion.

I was gonna get on your case for preaching again, but you actually did quite well! Maybe you DO have a purpose at EvC after all!

sometimes in our well meaning intentions, we drive people further from it.

"You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar"

I could argue this point, if just for practice.

Allow me to present a premise to the court, if I may.Premise: There are two imaginations. Gods imagination and our own vain imagination. We can either imagine our own (and other folks) destinies based on our own prophecy (foreseeing) or we can allow Gods Spirit..His creative imagination...to become our vision.when man imagines, proposes, or prophecys, we often do so out of our own vanity. vanityn, pl -ties 1 : something that is vain, empty, or useless 2 : the quality or fact of being useless or futile : futility 3 : undue pride in oneself or one's appearance : conceit 4 : a small case for cosmetics : compactSee Iano, I feel that God draws all men (and women) unto Himself. I dont believe that we have to go sell religion to every ignorant rube on the street corner. I wont go so far as to assert that every word that comes out of my mouth is productive, mind you! I believe, however, that just as God judges the hearts and intentions of us, so too does He reward those who diligently seek Him.There may well be only One way to God. That way is through relationship with His character, His vision, and His Spirit.Remember, also, that we do not begin this work in and of ourselves. God draws all unto Himself.I dont EVER tell anyone that they are headed for Hell unless they listen to me. Jesus never told anyone this either, (Except the Church/religious folk of His day).The closest I ever come to preaching is my signature....(which is mean't to be more contemplative than instructive)I rest my case in Ianos court. How does the Judge find me?

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“There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way” --C.S.Lewis