Opinions and conclusions about Religion and God.

I was hopping to present a challenge to the highlighted portion of your observation. Your thinking seems to contain much cynicism. I would encourage you to really think about the following:I believe that we can be certain that this adoption occurs, be it in error or not. What I wanted to bring up is that the answer to the question of our existence, existed long before we did (unless of course you hold that we are creating reality even now, or that time is an illusion and those sorts of ideas).But if it is true that reality is objective and absolute, then we can not create it, but can only adopt it. Not as our 'own reality' mind you, but as 'reality'.So if it is true that God has spoken, and revealed Himself as one of us, and spoke the truth... Then picking up on that is a selfless thing, and not rooted in ego or the attempt to be patted on the back for our genius or originality.The question really is... is that true?If it is, then reality is absolute.If it is not, then the reality that [it is false] is absolute!Either way,reality is absolute, for it cannot be otherwise...I have found that such thoughts work wonders in the pipeline. The illusions drift away like smoke...It's not deep stuff, just the inevitable and exclusive nature of truth...

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Any biters in the stream?

I believe in God, and am a Christian. I believe that Jesus revealed God to us in the manner prophesied in the Old Testament.If I had to explain why I believe Jesus was God in the simplest way possible. I would have to say that it is because He said so in the context of the language of the time and culture.I believe God is absolute, and the only thing that is absolute. It just so happens that this thing is a Being.Perhaps it would be more informative to look at it this way:Now the way I see it, it really doesn't matter what I believe one way or the other. If it turns out that evolution is true in the stricktly naturalist sense, then all the faith in the world in Christ will be meaningless. I would have been totally wrong in my assesment and as a result, out of touch with reality.The point I am trying to make is that I can't change reality. And believing what isn't real does me no good whatsoever. It might make me happy in a 'now' sense of the word. (which is the requirement for many when choosing a worldview).Christianity doesn't make me happy in the sense most people want. I've never been so miserable in my life! But only because so many reject what it is we have to say, and assume that it is all sophistry. Here we have the best news you could possibly have, and they want to crucify us. It's the one thing they don't want! And it is the real answer!I've never been so alive... The good is very good indeed. And the bad is very bad indeed. I can see! The future's so bright, I gotta die to get there!Edited by Rob, : Much needed editEdited by Rob, : No reason given.

I'm with you on this one Spiderman... Like I told a good friend who was considering my faith (and has since seen the light)...I didn't know what doubt was, until I believed. All Hell broke loose!Which is a curious thing when you think about it...

You couldn't possibly imagine.But if you ever do... You'll know how Neo felt when he woke up in the real world. And you'll love the combat training. You'll be able to jump right inside the agents and they will explode!The only catch is that you can only do it because the truth (Jesus) is the most powerful force in the universe. Not because you are smarter than the agents.One must make that clear or it appears that all is ego driven. It is far less harmful to everyone, if they only think your utterly mad...Edited by Rob, : harmless tauntEdited by Rob, : No reason given.

Not here to get into a spitting match this round. Just sharing my own conclusions and thoughts. I respect yours, we just disagree. I think I am able to reasonably show the thinking that results... If it doesn't make sense to you, then I am truely sorry, but I can't see how it was offensive???

That is the real issue isn't it? No mere man could say the things that He said. He is either the greatest deceiver of all time to date... Or, He is who He is!I notice that Conservatives love to point at Liberals and yell foul!Liberals at Conservatives...
Blacks at Whites...
Muslims at Jews...
So on and so forth... Everybody has a scape goat...But what is our excuse?We're all pointing fingers to avoid the hard thing. Looking in the mirror to see the real problem. And the problem is not with this man or that man. The problem is with man, and the problem is sin.You're so right Phat... we need to love each other, and that begins with forgiving. Even before our enemies admit they need to be forgiven.That is what our Lord did on the cross. 'While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.'He is love! But love requires relationship. One cannot love himself as the world promotes today. That is lonelyness.God is love because even before the creation of the world, God was a Being in realitonship. Father, Son, And Spirit.They said, 'Let us create man in our image!'We were meant to be body soul and Spirit in concert with our creator. We chose to be Gods of our own and gave up His Spirit. That is why we are slaves to our DNA and environment. That's what Richard Dawkins said...'We're all just dancing to our DNA, there's no such thing as right and wrong, we're just dancing to our DNA.That is precisely why Christ said boldly, "You must be born again!"Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

I like your stuff Spidey!Well, if you don't mind the opinion of a toothless old cowboy (that's Texan for Christian ) I have to say that many have called me a fanatic and a fundamentalist. As well as a judgemental goat. And... etc..All I can say is that is very judgemental of them!I like what you had to say, and I think that you do right in asking questions. I personally love the Apostle Paul, but as a good friend of mine warned me... 'Rob, be careful, there are different kinds of Christians.'This whole fundamentalist thing is really overstated! When I tell someone they're a sinner, I expect to get a rise. It is offensive, and it is offensive because it is true. We are all sinners!When someone who is very insecure as I have been most of my life, an offense like that feels like the rug of your whole life is being pulled out from under you. The insecure personality wants nothing more than to feel like they are a good person. That's why self esteem it is such a deadly and effective trap.The evil Devil screws us up and then we make peoples lives miserable, and they end up insecure and screw other peoples lives up etc. It's a viscious cycle of evil. And the only escape is to acknowledge the truth. And the truth is Christ! (sorry I'm babbling)It's terribly ironic that Christians are perceived as judgemental. it is exactly the opposite! And as you said Spiderman, not all people are really Christians, but how do you know which are?Jesus said to not try to pick them out. Only He can know that, and in the end He will seperate the sheep from the goats. I personally live in fear that I am a goat most of the time. some of my good brothers and sisters tell me that is a sure sign I'm a sheep. So... a lot of this stuff is exactly the opposite of what it appears.I want to make one thing clear right now... Everyone is a fundamentalist! If you have a conviction about anything at all, such as 1+1=2 then I rest my case. To hold an opinion at all requires that you believe in something absolutely! Even if you absolutely refuse to commit and sit on the fence, you will probably be the type who says, 'No-one can know the truth! Well, that is also a fundamentalist statement.Truth is fundamental! It is absolute, at the very least, implicitly!That is why Jesus is making a profound and reasonable statement when He said, "I am the way the truth, and the life. No man comes to the father except by me."That was a statement I had a huge problem with for a long time. But it does not mean that anyone who didn't have an opportunity to know Christ is damned as many suggest. When put into the context of all scripture, God knows, and God alone... knows our hearts. The righteous will live by faith. And the knowledge of God is a universal and very natural (albeit supernatural) instinct. Those who are honest in their hearts and cry out to God will be saved, even if they never knew His name.I have to stop or the post will be too long and the (secret police) ADsMinisters will get me...Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

I agree with the second half of your comment. God allows Him to exist. If He didn't He would be a fascist, and then many would accuse Him of being insecure. All of it ultimately works for the glory of God. Evil proves what is good by way of it's consequences to relationships.I part with you on the first half. Satan was an angel of God, but all of God's creatures (at least angels and Humans) are given free will. Some just are too impatient to trust God and want to know and have power now.We only need one God. We are so lucky to get to experience the mystery of Humanity. We are truely blessed. I have always wanted to get back the 'wonder' of childhood. God has given me that and I love Him for it. I don't fear the devil anymore. His threat of death has been defeated by our Lord. Not at all, 'while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.' Your right about that. God is bigger than that. We need to ask for forgiveness, because in order to do it, we have to acknowledge the truth (that we are corrupt) so that we can see... It is for our benefit and opens the flood gates of knowledge through true humility and open-mindedness to Gods voice.It is like the command to worship God. It is not because God is insecure and needs to be worshipped, it is because 'we' need to worship Him instead of our shortsided worldviews. It is for our own benefit. This is patently untrue in the sense used today. Fear is one of the most legitimate ways to enlighten and evoke thought.If I tell someone to not jump out of an airplane because they will die without a parachute, is that motivating by fear? Absolutely! And it works every time. It's inargueable, just as it is inargueable to remind the lost that they are sinners. It is not manipulative to tell the truth, and it is not judgemental. Telling someone that they are a sinner is not a judgement. Judgement is giving condemning them outright. We are all rightly condemned. All it takes to get to heaven and know christ is to do what the theif on the cross did. Admit that our penalty is just.Some will never admit a thing. And they cannot be forgiven, because they are not guilty. God is not a fascist. He doesn't want to control us like a puppet. He wants us to chose to understand. If we will not, He does not force us into His heavenly reality. Of course He can.. but He dosen't do stupid things. He did in the sense that He gave us free will. And He will give us want we want. To make this possible, He will allow for a seperate place for those who do not love Him. They will live out eternity by their rules, and I think they will be dissapointed.

Well, it appears that we are not going to agree on some things. There is only one thing that is fundamental to me... and that is that Christ knows you. That He lives within. I do not pretend to know who He knows and doesn't. I think we can get an idea, based on what people say but take me for example. I would assert that I was born-again in a big way, but it was a couple years before I gave up my evolutionary views. I had always maintained that Genesis was true, and we just didn't understand the symbolism. Some would have called me a heretic...But on this fear stuff I maintain that Jesus spoke a great deal about Hell. And He spoke with fire to the Pharisees. He wasn't fuzzy all over. Let me add some context:those are my personal thoughts on the subject as an amature theologian and philosopher. So please, no-one ask for a reference.But as a backup to what I just shared, I believe that is why C.S. Lewis wrote the following: ---C.S. Lewis, 'Mere Christiantiy'Consider the words of Jesus as opposed to the common and modern view that He came only in peace:The truth always divides and separates reality from subjection. He did not come the first time to judge, but will the second time around...Now, many claim and make an interesting point now and then that Jesus’ words were manipulated and mistranslated. I disagree, for no texts have been protected like the Cannon of scripture. I believe that He did in fact say all of these outrageous and incredible things. It is why He was crucified.

Well, I'm not going to respond with the kind of length your response is deserving of simply because of time pressure for me at the moment. Also, I don't think it is my place to convert anybody. I fully believe it is the Spirit that accomplishes that.We are definitely at odds on some things. For instance, I personally find that John is the most revealing of the Gospels. However it is in Luke where we really get a picture of the hard line stuff that freaks people out. Anyone can tolerate a lovey dovey Jesus who was just another guy but with great genes. Very few are interested in what He really was, and that is God...I strongly hear what the Apostle Paul is saying, and I don't dicount anything in scripture. I believe the whole Bible. That doesn't mean I can answer all of the very difficult questions that people raise. The details are unending.I totally agree with you about some churches being false and victimizing people. The lifting of snakes is a perfect example. But I do understand it's proper interpretation:The serpents are lies... demonic in origin. The poison is the wine(so to speak) of the false prophets. The christians job is to clear the bushes (the lies) and uproot them, all the while ingesting the deadly falsehoods and being unharmed, because they are so easy to see for the seeing. The goal is to give an unobstructed view of Christ.There are any number of way to say the same thing as I just mixed metaphors in my interpretation. The Bible is full of metaphor like that, not to mention parables. It is like encryption. You need the code to understand it, and the code is the Spirit of God.I find a lot of the Old Testament stories of battle and war, are direct examples of the spiritual war we face today. In those stories are tremendous lessons and confirmation and encouragement almost with a wink and a nod. In other words, the stories themselves seem to make no sense, but their true meaning is elsewhere. It is a supernatural experience to catch a glimpes of that revelation.This is going to be too much for some, but it is the truth. I understood very little of the Bible beforehand. I only followed God's leading, and that was a confession on my part very simple and genuine like the thief on the cross. After being born again and in a very short time, it was as though the whole Bible was revealed to me as one grid. Not a lot of details, I just understood it. Very difficult to explain and not very logical. Just Divine revelation! I was blind but now I see.There is only one requirement to know God. That's one of the many things that made Jesus unique... So many today preach (falsely) that we cannot know the truth. Jesus said flatly you will know the truth. And the requirement is to give over total control of your life to him. Then he will enter and you will see. It is not easy...when you are born of the Spirit that wrote it, you quickly begin to see why it is called the living Bible in many quarters, and how the false gospels were seen for what they were... Christianity is not a religion. It is reality! It's not about belief, it is about the blind having their sight restored.Faith? yes!... but not at all blind.That is my story and I'm sticking to it, not to mention I'm rambling and trying to rush...

Let us reason together...Do you exist?If so, how do you know when you don't know who you are or where here is???If we knew the answers to those existential questions, we wouldn't have a forum like this, and you and I would not be debating what the truth is...You exist...But that is faith, and it is not blind...

That is a good point... but not what you think...Thomas was there... we are not!Everything we believe factual or not about Christ is faith...