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Author Topic:   How do creationists explain stars?
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 297 (293002)
03-07-2006 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Bubs
03-06-2006 3:14 PM


Re: your registration.
It looks like you registered twice, once under bub and again under bubs. If you do not plan on using the bub registration I can disable it or if you would like to use bub as an alias, I can merge the accounts. Please let me know your preference.

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  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 38 by Bubs, posted 03-06-2006 3:14 PM Bubs has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 47 by Bubs, posted 03-08-2006 8:04 AM AdminJar has replied

    Bubs
    Inactive Member


    Message 47 of 297 (293173)
    03-08-2006 8:04 AM
    Reply to: Message 46 by AdminJar
    03-07-2006 2:02 PM


    Re: your registration.
    I did register twice. I never recieved an email the first time I registered, so I tried it again. Thanks

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 46 by AdminJar, posted 03-07-2006 2:02 PM AdminJar has replied

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    AdminJar
    Inactive Member


    Message 48 of 297 (293280)
    03-08-2006 12:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 47 by Bubs
    03-08-2006 8:04 AM


    Re: your registration.
    No problem. I deleted the original registration (Bub) and now, if you want, you can use that as an alias.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 47 by Bubs, posted 03-08-2006 8:04 AM Bubs has not replied

    Calypso
    Junior Member (Idle past 5155 days)
    Posts: 28
    Joined: 06-05-2006


    Message 49 of 297 (318181)
    06-06-2006 12:04 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by carini
    02-19-2006 1:47 AM


    I've read most of this thread, but not all of it, so forgive me if it was mentioned already but I fail to see why the creation of the Earth 6000 yrs ago would prevent light from 14 billion years ago from reaching it today.
    You realize that you are seeing light today from a star formed lets say a billion years ago, a billion light years away. The Earth is here today, you see that light today, what's the problem? It may be old light, but there is no reason I can see that it cannot reach earth just because the earth itself is young.
    I can roll a bowling ball down an alley with no pins at the end of the bowling alley. Now as the bowling ball approaches half way down the alley, I place a pin at the end of the alley. The bowling pin is the earth, the bowling ball is the photon. The ball does strike the pin does it not? Even though the pin did not exist when I first tossed the bowling ball.
    So if the bible claims the world was created 6000yrs ago, as you stated in your original question, how are the stars being 14 billion years old contradicting that?
    Edited by Calypso, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by carini, posted 02-19-2006 1:47 AM carini has not replied

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     Message 50 by Quetzal, posted 06-06-2006 12:30 AM Calypso has not replied

    Quetzal
    Member (Idle past 5872 days)
    Posts: 3228
    Joined: 01-09-2002


    Message 50 of 297 (318186)
    06-06-2006 12:30 AM
    Reply to: Message 49 by Calypso
    06-06-2006 12:04 AM


    Hi Calypso,
    Welcome to the nuthouse (err, I mean EvC)>
    I've read most of this thread, but not all of it, so forgive me if it was mentioned already but I fail to see why the creation of the Earth 6000 yrs ago would prevent light from 14 billion years ago from reaching it today.
    Indeed, that would neatly solve the "old light" problem. However, it probably raises even more difficulties. In the first place, it destroys the YEC insistence on a single creation event as stated in Gen 1: the Heavens and the Earth were created at the same time. If you're going to give in on the age of the universe, what's the point in insisting on a young Earth? Secondly, this would imply there were constant creation events going on - even today. This is another thing that most YECs won't countenance. Other problems will undoubtedly occur to you if you think about it.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 49 by Calypso, posted 06-06-2006 12:04 AM Calypso has not replied

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    JerryReno
    Inactive Member


    Message 51 of 297 (320992)
    06-12-2006 11:53 PM
    Reply to: Message 50 by Quetzal
    06-06-2006 12:30 AM


    Scientists say that there were periods of "inflation" in cosmology, and periods of "acceleration" in evolution. They say these things attempting to try to explain things that dont add up, from their perspective. If we play by the same "scientific" rules, why not consider that the mature trees at creation had annual rings, implying years instead of hours? Same could be said of all other living mature things at creation. In other words, consider that if creation (vs big bang/evolution)is true,then what we see)age could be any age. After all, this is a hallmark of "science fiction" back to the future scenarios. Maybe God has a grin, as he throws curve balls at scientists...

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 50 by Quetzal, posted 06-06-2006 12:30 AM Quetzal has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 53 by crashfrog, posted 06-13-2006 12:19 AM JerryReno has replied

    JerryReno
    Inactive Member


    Message 52 of 297 (320994)
    06-13-2006 12:03 AM
    Reply to: Message 50 by Quetzal
    06-06-2006 12:30 AM


    RE Age of Stars
    I goofed, didnt tie my prior response (50) to the age of stars. My conclusion is that age could be "apparent", not real, at least from our point of reference, if we apply the same rules being used by scientists today. There are some issues with "dark matter" (70% of all matter) that may have a huge influence on the behavior of light from stars and galaxies.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 50 by Quetzal, posted 06-06-2006 12:30 AM Quetzal has not replied

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     Message 56 by Rob, posted 06-13-2006 1:22 AM JerryReno has not replied

    crashfrog
    Member (Idle past 1467 days)
    Posts: 19762
    From: Silver Spring, MD
    Joined: 03-20-2003


    Message 53 of 297 (320996)
    06-13-2006 12:19 AM
    Reply to: Message 51 by JerryReno
    06-12-2006 11:53 PM


    On Grins
    Indeed, your memories could be fake, too - everything you remember before last thursday - the actual date of creation - is just apparent age. That would mean, of course, that events as related in the Bible didn't actually happen. How could they? The world started only last Thursday.
    Maybe God has a grin, as he throws curve balls at scientists...
    I'm sure the grin he has when he lobs those curveballs at Christians is just as big.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 51 by JerryReno, posted 06-12-2006 11:53 PM JerryReno has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 54 by JerryReno, posted 06-13-2006 12:45 AM crashfrog has not replied

    JerryReno
    Inactive Member


    Message 54 of 297 (321000)
    06-13-2006 12:45 AM
    Reply to: Message 53 by crashfrog
    06-13-2006 12:19 AM


    Re: On Grins
    Yep, if there really is a God (or god), as every culture in history seems to presume, he must take humor in what we do with the evidence of his existance. As for me, a christian, I would never presume to speak for him anymore.... I have tried that, and have failed miserably. My experience was much like that of Job in the Old Testament. Now I try to stay out of his way as he rattles cages. Isnt it amazing how some look at the stars and see him, while others mock or ignore him..?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 53 by crashfrog, posted 06-13-2006 12:19 AM crashfrog has not replied

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    ReverendDG
    Member (Idle past 4110 days)
    Posts: 1119
    From: Topeka,kansas
    Joined: 06-06-2005


    Message 55 of 297 (321002)
    06-13-2006 1:13 AM
    Reply to: Message 54 by JerryReno
    06-13-2006 12:45 AM


    Re: On Grins
    snt it amazing how some look at the stars and see him, while others mock or ignore him..?
    you are making the leap that athiests know he's real somewhere deep inside and just are ignoring him or mocking him. When in reality they don't believe yehwah among a million other gods exist.
    how do you mock something that doesn't exist?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 54 by JerryReno, posted 06-13-2006 12:45 AM JerryReno has not replied

    Rob 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
    Posts: 2297
    Joined: 06-01-2006


    Message 56 of 297 (321003)
    06-13-2006 1:22 AM
    Reply to: Message 52 by JerryReno
    06-13-2006 12:03 AM


    Re: RE Age of Stars
    Great topic, though all speculative...
    I personally think (not that anybody cares) that the universe was created fully formed.
    I believe it was perfect and after the fall of man, the whole thing has just been continually falling apart in some degree or another. I know this is not a new concept. 2nd law of thermodynamics and all...
    In a perfect system, it would only take one part to become out of harmony with the whole, to manifest an end to perfection. We think in terms of better than, or worse than. I suspect that in the absolute reality that I believe is our destiny if God has His way, there is only what is good (perfect), and anything less is evil.
    The only possible discrepancy that I wonder about, is that assuming the Biblical view, Lucifer and His angels had been cast to the earth. So, I don't know that it could have been a perfect system at that point.
    Perhaps that is why there was a need for a Garden. Hmm?
    But even then the sly old Serpent was there, so... I haven't figured it all out. That is why I said, it was perfect to some degree or design, but all the pieces are not there.
    Perhaps we were designed for perfection and the creation was designed for perfection, but it was necessary to be patient for the final scene of the play. In that way, we could have a choice, and evil would prove God's goodness. Wish/wash Santa claus! It's surely not worth fighting over...
    I reccomend a book called 'The Evolution of a Creationist' by Dr. Jobe Martin. He is not the type who will impress the strictly critical sceptic. But he unravels some intriguing puzzles on the early earth at least potentially. One that caught my eye (and there were several like this), is that Teredactyls (I know I spelled that wrong) would have been able to fly in the preflood atmosphere of earth (higher pressure and density). They could not have in our current atmosphere. Also, the water vapor canopy hinted at in Genesis, would have protected us in numerous ways, not the least of which is radiation. And in that environment, and assuming we were created to live eternally, when death entered the picture, it would not be unreasonable to 'consider' that men could have lived up to hundreds of years.
    Also, when Noah exited the ark in the lower pressure atmosphere, his normal consumption of wine would have more easily intoxicated him.
    Now, none of these things is essential in the manner that many scientists insist on in their own worldviews. The modern evolutionist is as dogmatic and fundamental about scientific beliefs that historically are shown to be thrown out as new evidence comes in, as any fanatic has ever displayed. For the Christian, it is better to not place your hat on speculation but be satisfied that many questions remain unanswered. If the Bible was demonstrably false in correctly showing the earths History, I don't think there would be a debate. It's not like some of the other fantastic tales from that same era where the earth is described as riding on the back of a huge tortoise.
    In the final analysis, faith is not blind at all, but quite revealing...
    I look at it this way. If God exists and I require full disclosure before I will accept what evidence does fit together as per Genesis, then I am insisting that I have God's knowledge before I will accept God and His claimed word.
    If that is the case, then I can't even believe that I exist, because I surely do not have full disclosure as to who I am or where here is. In that sense, I think the reason life is such a mystery, is that life is of God, and we are of the world. He cannot give us the kind of knowledge we were intended to have until He can make us perfect. And as Lewis said so bluntly, 'death is part of that process.'
    Some things, like the fact that I exist, and other less interesting subcreatures like anphibians, just have to be taken on faith irrespective of whether or not we would like them to exist, particularly in their current manifestation. But they are bound to change (metamorphesis) given the proper environment and enough time. The main thing is that we not let them off the hook, and continue to persuade with clear unmolested reason.
    As Robert Jastrow (agnostic, and former director of the Hubble observatory) said, 'If we go back in time, things reach a point of infinite density and temperature. That implys a beginning and that has a strong theological flavor to it.'
    Was there a beginning? Yes! Whether it was fully formed and is falling apart, or there was a big bang and it is still being formed I don't know... but it doesn't matter because in this life I never will.
    I do know this, it is meant to be wholly formed, and that is where it is going with us, or without us. God has ordained it, and commands that we be perfect. With His help, we can overcome our finitude and gain power that is only given to those who can handle it. The instructions for use are found in the Spirit of God. Not to mention the patience to endure the wait.
    Come Lord jesus, come quickly!
    Rob

    Any biters in the stream?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 52 by JerryReno, posted 06-13-2006 12:03 AM JerryReno has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 57 by ReverendDG, posted 06-13-2006 2:07 AM Rob has replied
     Message 83 by fallacycop, posted 06-13-2006 10:45 PM Rob has replied

    ReverendDG
    Member (Idle past 4110 days)
    Posts: 1119
    From: Topeka,kansas
    Joined: 06-06-2005


    Message 57 of 297 (321012)
    06-13-2006 2:07 AM
    Reply to: Message 56 by Rob
    06-13-2006 1:22 AM


    Re: RE Age of Stars
    I believe it was perfect and after the fall of man, the whole thing has just been continually falling apart in some degree or another. I know this is not a new concept. 2nd law of thermodynamics and all...
    hey rob go READ the second law sometime, it only works in closed systems, with no energy entering the system, the universe is not a closed system, this might work if we didn't have the sun hitting us
    In a perfect system, it would only take one part to become out of harmony with the whole, to manifest an end to perfection. We think in terms of better than, or worse than. I suspect that in the absolute reality that I believe is our destiny if God has His way, there is only what is good (perfect), and anything less is evil.
    oh come on if you are going to claim a literal reading of the bible please don't interprete the word good, god said the world was good not perfect - the universe has never been perfect just good and works.
    evil is part of this world, god created evil, he even says it
    The only possible discrepancy that I wonder about, is that assuming the Biblical view, Lucifer and His angels had been cast to the earth. So, I don't know that it could have been a perfect system at that point.
    so how did a star get cast into the earth? you do know lucifer is mistranslation in the kjv? and the fall of satan isn't really bibical its just an inference from those mistranslations
    But even then the sly old Serpent was there, so... I haven't figured it all out. That is why I said, it was perfect to some degree or design, but all the pieces are not there.
    it was a snake not satan, and god never calls it perfect
    Perhaps we were designed for perfection and the creation was designed for perfection, but it was necessary to be patient for the final scene of the play. In that way, we could have a choice, and evil would prove God's goodness. Wish/wash Santa claus! It's surely not worth fighting over...
    how about some evidence? chapter, verse where the universe is ever called perfect or that we were designed perfect
    I reccomend a book called 'The Evolution of a Creationist' by Dr. Jobe Martin. He is not the type who will impress the strictly critical sceptic. But he unravels some intriguing puzzles on the early earth at least potentially. One that caught my eye (and there were several like this), is that Teredactyls (I know I spelled that wrong) would have been able to fly in the preflood atmosphere of earth (higher pressure and density). They could not have in our current atmosphere. Also, the water vapor canopy hinted at in Genesis, would have protected us in numerous ways, not the least of which is radiation. And in that environment, and assuming we were created to live eternally, when death entered the picture, it would not be unreasonable to 'consider' that men could have lived up to hundreds of years.
    the best thing would be to go read about flying reptiles by people who study them instead of reading unfounded speculation, i think there would be some sort of effect on the earth if the gravity changed
    by the way wheres the evidence for the vapor canopy? the verse talks about the clouds and the sky its a phoetic way of saying it rained really hard!
    Also, when Noah exited the ark in the lower pressure atmosphere, his normal consumption of wine would have more easily intoxicated him.
    evidence of any of this?
    Now, none of these things is essential in the manner that many scientists insist on in their own worldviews. The modern evolutionist is as dogmatic and fundamental about scientific beliefs that historically are shown to be thrown out as new evidence comes in, as any fanatic has ever displayed. For the Christian, it is better to not place your hat on speculation but be satisfied that many questions remain unanswered. If the Bible was demonstrably false in correctly showing the earths History, I don't think there would be a debate. It's not like some of the other fantastic tales from that same era where the earth is described as riding on the back of a huge tortoise.
    i guess thats where science differs from faith and belief, science is based on something we can verifiy and observe, your stuff is nothing but unfounded speculation and ad hoc after ad hoc. all the rest of the quote is implying that science is based on guesses, do you have any evidence or is this just most assuptions about something you don't really know much about?
    the funny thing is the bible has be falsified! by christians no less! go read some history and educate yourself about science and the last 200 years
    It's not like some of the other fantastic tales from that same era where the earth is described as riding on the back of a huge tortoise.
    i love this, you have no clue about myths do you?, genesis is exactly like this, the sky is a giant piece of metal! oh yes we know your story is true.. only because you think its true, the others are all false because you don't think they are true
    In the final analysis, faith is not blind at all, but quite revealing...
    no faith isn't blind, but many believers seem to be
    I look at it this way. If God exists and I require full disclosure before I will accept what evidence does fit together as per Genesis, then I am insisting that I have God's knowledge before I will accept God and His claimed word.
    see the thing is, the bible is a book, whether or not the bible is true has no bearing on whether god exists or not, the bible is not god nor has any hold over god - so you can believe in god using the bible as a spiritual guide,or not but the bible is not 100% fact
    If that is the case, then I can't even believe that I exist, because I surely do not have full disclosure as to who I am or where here is. In that sense, I think the reason life is such a mystery, is that life is of God, and we are of the world. He cannot give us the kind of knowledge we were intended to have until He can make us perfect. And as Lewis said so bluntly, 'death is part of that process.'
    god has never once said he wants us perfect he wants us to lead a good life and if you believe in jesus and whats said in the NT, to love god and love your neighbor as yourself - nothing more, nothing less.
    if you only put stock in the bible instead of bothering to use your brain and heart i tihnk god, may well be wondering what you are doing
    As Robert Jastrow (agnostic, and former director of the Hubble observatory) said, 'If we go back in time, things reach a point of infinite density and temperature. That implys a beginning and that has a strong theological flavor to it.'
    this is a belief, he can believe what he wants
    Was there a beginning? Yes! Whether it was fully formed and is falling apart, or there was a big bang and it is still being formed I don't know... but it doesn't matter because in this life I never will.
    i agree but i believe in some being starting the big bang, a god of some sort a demiurge at the worst, i mean we have objects flowing from somewhere, why not a big bang
    I do know this, it is meant to be wholly formed, and that is where it is going with us, or without us. God has ordained it, and commands that we be perfect. With His help, we can overcome our finitude and gain power that is only given to those who can handle it. The instructions for use are found in the Spirit of God. Not to mention the patience to endure the wait.
    verse and chapter?, any sort of evidence that anything you have said is in the bible?
    Come Lord jesus, come quickly!
    oh i just realized this is nothing but a preach session on why we should believe in your god instead of say the FSM, not really all that convincing - nor did you even answer the topic, so i'm going with you have no clue about stars
    Edited by ReverendDG, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 56 by Rob, posted 06-13-2006 1:22 AM Rob has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 58 by crashfrog, posted 06-13-2006 8:06 AM ReverendDG has replied
     Message 59 by Rob, posted 06-13-2006 10:46 AM ReverendDG has replied

    crashfrog
    Member (Idle past 1467 days)
    Posts: 19762
    From: Silver Spring, MD
    Joined: 03-20-2003


    Message 58 of 297 (321057)
    06-13-2006 8:06 AM
    Reply to: Message 57 by ReverendDG
    06-13-2006 2:07 AM


    Re: RE Age of Stars
    hey rob go READ the second law sometime, it only works in closed systems, with no energy entering the system, the universe is not a closed system
    Wouldn't the universe be the only closed system? What energy, in your view, enters or leaves the universe?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 57 by ReverendDG, posted 06-13-2006 2:07 AM ReverendDG has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 60 by Rob, posted 06-13-2006 10:47 AM crashfrog has not replied
     Message 86 by ReverendDG, posted 06-14-2006 11:06 AM crashfrog has not replied

    Rob 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
    Posts: 2297
    Joined: 06-01-2006


    Message 59 of 297 (321077)
    06-13-2006 10:46 AM
    Reply to: Message 57 by ReverendDG
    06-13-2006 2:07 AM


    Re: RE Age of Stars
    You guys really need to relax. I thought I did a great job of explaining that this whole exercise is just speculation. Even so, you get so offended. Truth is relative remember? What's wrong with my truth? You have yours right?
    [b]Note: I always use the NIV version except when pasting and copying for time saving. And for the record, I'm not persnickity about which translation is the best. My internet resource covers thirty of them[b]The Bible - Read and Study Free Online
    I'm dissapointed I have to addresss some of these things. Really sloppy on your part.
    hey rob go READ the second law sometime, it only works in closed systems, with no energy entering the system, the universe is not a closed system, this might work if we didn't have the sun hitting us
    The Bible and the second law...Old Testament "NKJ Isa 51:6 For the heavens will vanish away like smoke, the earth will grow old like a garment..."
    And also a New Testament rendering: NKJ, Heb 1:10-11 "You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain; and they will all grow old like a garment."
    Also, I think you're forgetting the 1st law of thermodynamics... energy can never be create nor destroyed i.e. The suns are going to burn out and are not creating new energy, but are only converting existing energy.
    And for the corrosponding Bible verse that reveals the 1st Law many thousands of years before we discovered it... NIV Genesis 2:1
    Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. And this conveniently fits with other passages which elude to not adding or subtracting to the word, and God's plans being complete, or whole. Christ on the cross, 'It is finished!'
    Other scientifically accurate Bible quotes that preceed science, and that 'old science' argued with. NKJ Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth..." It was people who said the earth was flat, Not the word of God.
    NKJ, Job 26:7 "He stretches out the north over empty space; he hangs the earth upon nothing"
    Now when you read that, please don't pretend that you know what gravity is and presume to argue the point...
    oh come on if you are going to claim a literal reading of the bible please don't interprete the word good, god said the world was good not perfect - the universe has never been perfect just good and works. evil is part of this world, god created evil, he even says it
    To God, 'good' is perfect... NIV Mark 10:18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
    NIV Luke 18:19
    "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
    so how did a star get cast into the earth? you do know lucifer is mistranslation in the kjv? and the fall of satan isn't really bibical its just an inference from those mistranslations
    You're too cynical little goat boy, Christ is also portrayed as the morning star, and said Himself 'I am the light of the world'. 'I have come into the world as a light' etc. The terms star and light have a double meaning to confuse the proud and learned...
    it was a snake not satan, and god never calls it perfect
    [b]NIV Genesis 3:1
    Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made...
    NKJ Job 41; 1 "Can you draw out the Leviathon, or snare his tongue with a line in which you lower?"
    NKJ Rev 20; 1-3 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, Having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He layed hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the devil and satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the botttomless pit, and shut him up"
    Speaking of Leviathan:
    Job 41; 2 Can you put a reed through his nose, or pierce His jaw with a hook?
    Ezekiel 38 3; 4 'and say, Thus says the Lord God: "Behold, I am against you. O Gog, prince of Rosh, meshech, and Tubal. I will turn you around and put hooks in your Jaw...'
    Rev 12; 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent.
    Job 41;23 When the river rages, he is not alarmed; he is secure; though the Jordan surges against his mouth.
    Psalm 74:14
    It was you who crushed the heads of Leviathan and gave him as food to the creatures of the desert.
    how about some evidence? chapter, verse where the universe is ever called perfect or that we were designed perfect
    Job 36:4 Be assured that my words are not false; one perfect in knowledge is with you.
    Matthew 5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
    Matthew 19:21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
    Romans 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.
    Heb 11:40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
    I reccommend a book called 'The Evolution of a Creationist' by Dr. Jobe Martin....
    Also, when Noah exited the ark in the lower pressure atmosphere, his normal consumption of wine would have more easily intoxicated him.
    evidence of any of this?
    Dr, Martin gives it in his book. It's totally testable, as are many of the things in Genesis. He documents his conclusions well. Check it out. I know your interested inexpanding your horizons in a relentless pursuit of the truth...
    i guess thats where science differs from faith and belief, science is based on something we can verifiy and observe, your stuff is nothing but unfounded speculation and ad hoc after ad hoc. all the rest of the quote is implying that science is based on guesses, do you have any evidence or is this just most assuptions about something you don't really know much about?
    I'm making it all up. I went back in time and changed the ancient texts...
    the funny thing is the bible has be falsified! by christians no less! go read some history and educate yourself about science and the last 200 years
    It's a damn conspiracy!
    i love this, you have no clue about myths do you?, genesis is exactly like this, the sky is a giant piece of metal!
    Say what???
    oh yes we know your story is true.. only because you think its true, the others are all false because you don't think they are true
    What I believe has nothing to do with whether or not it is true. And the same goes for you. I am so glad you understand this point because some people have a hard time comprehending the fact that reality preceeds them. Reality is absolute!
    Maybe we are reincarnated... Maybe we did evolve... maybe God did create the world in six days, and maybe we will be ressurected...
    Whatever the truth turns out to be, it will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So this whole notion of diversity and the truth being relative is completely false. Thank you for proving that point on accident.
    no faith isn't blind, but many believers seem to be
    Jesus came to restore sight...
    see the thing is, the bible is a book, whether or not the bible is true has no bearing on whether god exists or not
    You need to have your sight restored. If it is true... I think it has tremendous bearing on all of reality.
    the bible is not god nor has any hold over god - so you can believe in god using the bible as a spiritual guide,or not but the bible is not 100% fact
    But your statement is true and therefore absolute?
    god has never once said he wants us perfect he wants us to lead a good life and if you believe in jesus and whats said in the NT, to love god and love your neighbor as yourself - nothing more, nothing less.
    Thou shall worship the Lord thy God and no other...
    Thou shall not create a God in your own image...
    But Reverend, I have to admit... your God would be a lot less scary and would let me live anyway I want without compromise. Uconditonal love man...
    if you only put stock in the bible instead of bothering to use your brain and heart i tihnk god, may well be wondering what you are doing
    I appriciate your tolerance and concern. I can see you are a loving soul...
    --------------------------
    I do know this, it is meant to be wholly formed, and that is where it is going with us, or without us. God has ordained it, and commands that we be perfect. With His help, we can overcome our finitude and gain power that is only given to those who can handle it. The instructions for use are found in the Spirit of God. Not to mention the patience to endure the wait.
    verse and chapter?, any sort of evidence that anything you have said is in the bible?
    No, I'm making it all up... There is nothing in the Bible about Eternal life, Heaven, the new Heaven and Earth, or the patient endurance of the saints. You got me boss...
    nor did you even answer the topic, so i'm going with you have no clue about stars
    Oh yeah... how do creationists explain the stars???...
    In the beginning, God created...

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 57 by ReverendDG, posted 06-13-2006 2:07 AM ReverendDG has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 61 by Coragyps, posted 06-13-2006 11:04 AM Rob has replied
     Message 64 by jar, posted 06-13-2006 11:56 AM Rob has replied
     Message 77 by kuresu, posted 06-13-2006 6:58 PM Rob has replied
     Message 87 by ReverendDG, posted 06-14-2006 11:50 AM Rob has replied

    Rob 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
    Posts: 2297
    Joined: 06-01-2006


    Message 60 of 297 (321078)
    06-13-2006 10:47 AM
    Reply to: Message 58 by crashfrog
    06-13-2006 8:06 AM


    Re: RE Age of Stars
    Hey man!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 58 by crashfrog, posted 06-13-2006 8:06 AM crashfrog has not replied

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