Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,480 Year: 3,737/9,624 Month: 608/974 Week: 221/276 Day: 61/34 Hour: 4/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The definition of science: What should it be?
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 3 of 100 (318655)
06-07-2006 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rob
06-06-2006 10:27 AM


But, the reason 'mainstream' scientists can say that, is because 'mainstream science' (the convention) is defined as 'Methodological Naturalism'.
Can you provide any references to such a definition. The google page of "science" definitions does not even mention "methodological naturalism."
Methodological naturalism 'presupposes' that there is no external cause, and that the explanation for the existence of a creature (or organism), the earth, or the cosmos as a whole is found within the creature, the earth, or cosmos itself.
No, that's wrong. Science explains what it can on the basis of evidence, and leaves unexplained what it cannot explain. It does not claim to explain everything.
To confuse the issue, there are varying definitions of what methodological naturalism means, and the convention is in control of the definition at the present time.
Yes, there are varying definitions. It depends on which creationist site you go to for finding the definition, and which particular way that creationist site wants to misrepresent science.
The standards are not rigorous, other than they protect the convention from any serious challenge in a number of ways; from funding for opposition research: Denied... by smiling beaurocrats, to dismissal and intimidation of even suggesting such a rediculous notion as stupid and religiously motivated.
You need to document these charges. If you cannot document them, then you are bearing false witness.
When trying to define something as pivotal as 'science', should we presuppose as a convention anything at all, other than the search for the truth?
I am not aware of any presupposed conventions. Science uses conventions, but it develops those conventions as needed for the particular study. "Science" is difficult to define, precisely because it is not based on presupposed conventions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Rob, posted 06-06-2006 10:27 AM Rob has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 47 of 100 (322566)
06-17-2006 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Rob
06-17-2006 11:22 AM


Re: Ontological vs methodological
Percy writes:
science seeks truth but understands that it is unachievable
Why pursue what is not achievable?
Mostly, scientists are pragmatists. They seek what works. And what works need not be truth.
As an example, consider the ideal gas laws. These are important in physics. Yet every physicist knows that, technically, the ideal gas laws are false for real gases and true only for an imagined ideal gas. Nevertheless, the ideal gas laws are an excellent approximation, and using them works in terms of making pretty good predictions about the behavior of gases.
When Percy says "science seeks truth", you should take that as a metaphor. Scientists would certainly prefer that their laws are all truth. But if they are good approximations that work very well, then scientists will find those useful enough, and will develop their science on the basis of such approximations. If they are later able to get even better approximations, then so much the better.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Rob, posted 06-17-2006 11:22 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Rob, posted 06-17-2006 5:02 PM nwr has not replied
 Message 56 by Percy, posted 06-17-2006 6:36 PM nwr has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024