Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Belief Statement - jar
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 46 of 300 (323938)
06-20-2006 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Jazzns
06-20-2006 1:38 PM


Valid christian teaching?
Quick question Jazz.
Do you know of any branches of Christianity that promote a faith that denies Jesus' divinity as a valid path to God?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Jazzns, posted 06-20-2006 1:38 PM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by sidelined, posted 06-20-2006 3:03 PM Brian has replied
 Message 50 by Jazzns, posted 06-20-2006 3:57 PM Brian has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 47 of 300 (323948)
06-20-2006 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Brian
06-20-2006 2:37 PM


Re: Valid christian teaching?
Brian
Well,perhaps so, if a single person can count as a branch.
Alternet.org - 404 Not Found

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 2:37 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 3:07 PM sidelined has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 48 of 300 (323952)
06-20-2006 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by sidelined
06-20-2006 3:03 PM


Re: Valid christian teaching?
Nah, a single person is a heretic
Edited by Brian, : spelling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by sidelined, posted 06-20-2006 3:03 PM sidelined has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 49 of 300 (323965)
06-20-2006 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Brian
06-20-2006 2:23 PM


Re: Christianity is .....a denomination?
The question was to enquire as to how many other's share Jar's beliefs. For all I know it may be a recognised branch of Christianity that I haven't heard of.
Which leads exactly to my follow up questions for you which in a nutshell were asking why that matters.
You are making a statement about the validity of his position and also asking about the relative frequency of people who share his beliefs. Were those two points really unrelated?
Please clarify because it seems as though you are retreating from a part of your position.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 2:23 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 4:36 PM Jazzns has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 50 of 300 (323972)
06-20-2006 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Brian
06-20-2006 2:37 PM


Re: Valid christian teaching?
Forgive me if I missed it. Where did Jar deny the divinity of Jesus? Honestly I may have missed it. That certainly would be a minority position to hold and still be called a Christian. I still think though it could potentially be valid as long as that person thought of Christianity as being a follower of the principles of Christ.
The point for me is simply who am I to judge another person's belief. That is maybe just part of my personality. I may personally consider their belief to be strange, wrong, or even offensive but I certainly don't feel I have the right as a human being to say that they aren't what they claim.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 2:37 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 4:42 PM Jazzns has replied
 Message 53 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 4:53 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 51 of 300 (323985)
06-20-2006 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Jazzns
06-20-2006 3:35 PM


Re: Christianity is .....a denomination?
Merely interested if Jar knows if this is a popular belief system.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Jazzns, posted 06-20-2006 3:35 PM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Jazzns, posted 06-20-2006 6:01 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 52 of 300 (323988)
06-20-2006 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Jazzns
06-20-2006 3:57 PM


Re: Valid christian teaching?
Forgive me if I missed it. Where did Jar deny the divinity of Jesus?
I didn't say he denied Jesus' divinity.
What he did say is that following a faith that denies Jesus' divinity (Islam)is a valid path to salvation. Given that Jesus said the only way to the Father is through Jesus Himself, I cannot see how following Islam can be compatible with a very basic Christian teaching.
Islam considers the Incarnation as an abomination, and the Incarnation is a basic xian teaching.
The point for me is simply who am I to judge another person's belief.
Jar can call himself whatever he wants, that's up to him.
I have a cat here with a beak, two wings, and is covered in feathers, it is a cat isn't it?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Jazzns, posted 06-20-2006 3:57 PM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Jazzns, posted 06-20-2006 6:03 PM Brian has replied
 Message 73 by GDR, posted 06-20-2006 11:27 PM Brian has replied
 Message 76 by lfen, posted 06-21-2006 3:13 AM Brian has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 53 of 300 (323992)
06-20-2006 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Jazzns
06-20-2006 3:57 PM


Jesus Divinity
While I personally believe Jesus is divine, what I have said, and will willingly repeat, is that even if Jesus never lived, if he was but a myth told around the campfires, the message of GOD and of the Bible would still be true.
Love GOD and love others as you love yourself.
It really is that simple.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Jazzns, posted 06-20-2006 3:57 PM Jazzns has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:00 PM jar has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 54 of 300 (323995)
06-20-2006 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by jar
06-20-2006 4:53 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
If it were possible that Jesus was a myth told around campfires, is it equally possible that love God and love you neighbour is also a myth. Why is this particularity true when/if Jesus isn't?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 4:53 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 5:07 PM iano has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 55 of 300 (323999)
06-20-2006 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by iano
06-20-2006 5:00 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
iano writes:
If it were possible that Jesus was a myth told around campfires, is it equally possible that love God and love you neighbour is also a myth. Why is this particularity true when/if Jesus isn't?
Because Love GOD and love others as you love yourself is still the best possible message for building a life for you and for all around you. It doesn't matter if it is myth, folktale or old wives tale, the message is still true.
It really is as simple as that.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:00 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:19 PM jar has replied
 Message 57 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 5:20 PM jar has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 56 of 300 (324007)
06-20-2006 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by jar
06-20-2006 5:07 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
This presupposes that that is Gods aim. Is it possible that that is a subjective notion born out of a personal philosopy as to how best the world should work. God in your own image as it were?
How does one find out whether this actually springs from God

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 5:07 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 5:30 PM iano has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 57 of 300 (324009)
06-20-2006 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by jar
06-20-2006 5:07 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
Because Love GOD and love others as you love yourself is still the best possible message for building a life for you and for all around you. It doesn't matter if it is myth, folktale or old wives tale, the message is still true.
But, this isn't xianity.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 5:07 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Quetzal, posted 06-20-2006 5:36 PM Brian has not replied
 Message 60 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 5:39 PM Brian has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 58 of 300 (324014)
06-20-2006 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by iano
06-20-2006 5:19 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
This presupposes that that is Gods aim. Is it possible that that is a subjective notion born out of a personal philosopy as to how best the world should work. God in your own image as it were?
How does one find out whether this actually springs from God
The point is it does not matter. Love GOD and love others as you love yourself is true regardless of the source.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:19 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:40 PM jar has replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 59 of 300 (324017)
06-20-2006 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Brian
06-20-2006 5:20 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
But, this isn't xianity.
Funny, but I usually agree with most everything you write, Brian (must be the Scots ancestry - or possibly merely the Scotch - in me). However, in this case I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Jar's professed beliefs seem to me to have quite a few elements of arianism and monarchianism (without the adoptionist bits, AFAICT). Whereas these systems are considered heretical, they are nonetheless Christian, if anti-trinitarian. OTOH, I've accused ( ) jar of being a closet deist because his faith is highly inclusive, rather than the typical exclusionist doctrines of most organized Christian faiths. It's actually rather refreshing - someone who thinks there are multiple paths to the ultimate goal. Even if I don't agree with him on what that ultimate goal might be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 5:20 PM Brian has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 60 of 300 (324020)
06-20-2006 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Brian
06-20-2006 5:20 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
And your point is? I'm sorry but that is just so silly a post.
Of course that is not Christianity. Who ever said it was?
It is, however, the message of GOD and of Christianity.
To be a Christian, as opposed to being a member of some other religion, requires that the person accept certain minimal beliefs. I have said that I am a cradle Creedal Christian, member of the Episcopal Church, part of the Anglican Communion.
But that is club membership. It is not me. It is not the sum of my beliefs. Most certainly, it is not GOD.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 5:20 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 5:46 PM jar has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024