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Author Topic:   Free will: an illusion
iano
Member (Idle past 231 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 301 of 309 (324377)
06-21-2006 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 300 by PurpleYouko
06-21-2006 11:37 AM


Re: Humor is in the eye of the beholder
Of course, whilst you are in the process of writing the book of your life, God can give your arm a nudge so that you write it slightly differently. Give you a nudge down a certain route (leading to him), you can accept the nudge and follow and be saved. Or you can re-set the course to the one you yourself wanted to follow

Free will but subject to influence and intervention (Satan gets to nudge you too). Whatever way it gets written though, he sees it already.

Funny, God knows if you will be saved and you don't. And today (in time) he nudges you in his direction whilst knowing (in eternity) whether your salvation will occur or not. Time/eternity.

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by PurpleYouko, posted 06-21-2006 11:37 AM PurpleYouko has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by PurpleYouko, posted 06-21-2006 11:47 AM iano has not yet responded

PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 713
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 302 of 309 (324379)
06-21-2006 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by iano
06-21-2006 11:43 AM


Re: Humor is in the eye of the beholder
Whatever.

You see free will in this and I don't.

At least I think we all finally agree to the logical outcome of the question, A deterministic Universe.

We just disagree on what a deterministic universe actually means.
But that's an issue for another thread. this ones past its sell-by date

Till next time


This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by iano, posted 06-21-2006 11:43 AM iano has not yet responded

Heathen
Member
Posts: 1063
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 303 of 309 (324403)
06-21-2006 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by iano
06-21-2006 11:30 AM


Re: Que Sera, Sera
iano writes:

The book is already written in eternity. You are free to write the book any way you like but whichever way you do that is the book that God is viewing. No matter which way you WILL chose to write it, that is the book he IS viewing


but at anytime he can flip fwd and see what will be? He knows exactly how you will write it. it seem to me that this is then fixed. a defined, definfite outcome from which we can/will not deviate.

therefore, as I have no awarenes of this pre destined future I am not in a position to avoid it.
so from my point of view... free will... I think I'm writing this book.
but from god's point of view... I am a character in the novel called 'eternity' with no more ability to change the eventual outcome than a character in any work of fiction we read.

this is the illusion of free will we have.

unless of course.. God is not all knowing, and our future is unwritten

Edited by Creavolution, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by iano, posted 06-21-2006 11:30 AM iano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by cavediver, posted 06-21-2006 12:48 PM Heathen has responded
 Message 308 by iano, posted 06-21-2006 1:21 PM Heathen has not yet responded

cavediver
Member (Idle past 1933 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 304 of 309 (324405)
06-21-2006 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by Heathen
06-21-2006 12:46 PM


Re: Que Sera, Sera
but from god's point of view... I am a character in the novel called 'eternity' with no more ability to change the eventual outcome than a character in any work of fiction we read.

So who did decide your actions?

(how long before someone notices :) What's the most a thread has gone beyond 300? Sounds like a challenge...)

Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Heathen, posted 06-21-2006 12:46 PM Heathen has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by Heathen, posted 06-21-2006 12:58 PM cavediver has responded
 Message 307 by iano, posted 06-21-2006 1:15 PM cavediver has not yet responded

Heathen
Member
Posts: 1063
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 305 of 309 (324411)
06-21-2006 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by cavediver
06-21-2006 12:48 PM


Re: Que Sera, Sera
cavediver writes:

So who did decide your actions?


Great question.. one that no-one else has asked...

I'm not sure I can even answer it (given I'm trying to rush before we're shut down),
I would say the all knowing God has some resposibility seeing as he programmed us to respond as we do.

maybe if we whisper no one will notice...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by cavediver, posted 06-21-2006 12:48 PM cavediver has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by cavediver, posted 06-21-2006 1:02 PM Heathen has not yet responded

cavediver
Member (Idle past 1933 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 306 of 309 (324412)
06-21-2006 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by Heathen
06-21-2006 12:58 PM


Re: Que Sera, Sera
I would say the all knowing God has some resposibility seeing as he programmed us to respond as we do.

And if there is no God? Say I have good enough omniscience from my time-travelling...

(I'd be please with 310)

Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by Heathen, posted 06-21-2006 12:58 PM Heathen has not yet responded

iano
Member (Idle past 231 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 307 of 309 (324417)
06-21-2006 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by cavediver
06-21-2006 12:48 PM


Re: Que Sera, Sera
Replying to wrong post

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by cavediver, posted 06-21-2006 12:48 PM cavediver has not yet responded

iano
Member (Idle past 231 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 308 of 309 (324418)
06-21-2006 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by Heathen
06-21-2006 12:46 PM


Re: Que Sera, Sera
but at anytime he can flip fwd and see what will be?

Figures of speech that do not deal with it as it would be. Not anytime - for there is no time. He doesn't flip forward because there is no forward or back in eternity - only present.

In Gods eyes he is enjoying my company and me enjoying his in eternity. For in eternity I am already there. But in time I am still here.

I am making my decisions (with his help and with satans interference) at the moment and will continue to do so until I die.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Heathen, posted 06-21-2006 12:46 PM Heathen has not yet responded

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 309 of 309 (324420)
06-21-2006 1:31 PM


Well, freewill or no, Witching hour is upon us...
and this thread has run its course.

closing.


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