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Author | Topic: How do creationists explain stars? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Rob writes: Just that one of us is wrong, because the truth is absolute! You and Fallacycop are exchanging one-liners and I think the original point is getting lost. You claimed that if the Bible were demonstrably false there wouldn't be a debate. Fallacycop was only pointing out that there isn't a debate. The account in Genesis is given no credence within science whatsoever. In other words, Fallacycop is saying there is no scientific debate. But there *is* a debate. It is a social and religious debate. It is religious because the creationists object to evolution on religious grounds. And it is social because creationists try to influence the educational community to reduce treatments of evolution while giving more consideration to creationist views. But there's no scientific debate. Even before Darwin geologists had already established that the world was far older than the account in Genesis implies. --Percy
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5870 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
he thought the doctors were giving drugs to him to kill him, now of course they were not, he thought it was, what i am getting at is reality is not static or absulute it varies from person to person but the universe does not Do you hear yourself? He thought they were, but they were not??? The absolute reality is that they were not! What he believes is irrelevant.... The only thing that will help him know who he is or where he is, is the truth. And the truth is reality!
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5870 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
This is NOT on topic here! Please do not respond. Even before Darwin geologists had already established that the world was far older than the account in Genesis implies. Polystratic fossils... Edited by AdminNosy, : Topic Warning!
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 755 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Rob: The distance to the Large Magellanic Cloud is about 170,000 light years, as determined by several methods including plain old trigonometry. This means that the light we saw here on Earth from Supernova 1987A came from an explosion that occurred about 170,000 years before 1987.
If the Earth is about 6000 years old, and the stars were created four days after the Earth, how does this work? Did the star in the LMC explode 164,000 years before it was created? Did light from an explosion that never really happened get "created in transit" 6000 years ago so astronomers could watch events that didn't happen unfold for these last 19 years? How does that work?
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Rob writes: Even before Darwin geologists had already established that the world was far older than the account in Genesis implies. Polystratic fossils... AdminNosy correctly notes that to take up this part of the discussion would draw us off-topic, but there is an on-topic component to this. Who in the scientific community is arguing that polystrate fossils invalidate modern geology? Only creationists make this argument, right? There's no scientific debate. In the same way, there is no scientific debate about the age of stars and galaxies and how they formed. The objections once again come from the creationist community whose views are based upon an inerrant interpretation of the holy book of Christianity. Fallacycop was rebutting your point that the existence of a difference of opinion means that the objections must have some scientific legitimacy. But the objections are religious, not scientific. So if you want to argue that your views on stars have scientific validity, you'll have to point to scientific, not religious, evidence. --Percy
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Armbar Inactive Member |
Off Topic! Please do not respond. Forgive me, I'm not used to participating in such a busy forum. I just find it disturbing that the anti creationists resort to looking at the stars and talking about light speed ext. When we have nations of starving children and can't seem to figure out how to feed them. Edited by AdminNosy, : Topic warning
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 755 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Off Topic! Please do not respond. Hello, Armbar. Welcome aboard. How is it that talking about light speed excludes helping starving kids? Am I not allowed to do both? Edited by AdminNosy, : Topic warning
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5870 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
So if you want to argue that your views on stars have scientific validity, you'll have to point to scientific, not religious, evidence. On a tip from a friend, I had to check into a theory that at first seemed exciting yet I hate to get too excitied seeing what you have done to such haste in the past. after reading several sources, I found that what at first was hastily compiled by at least one creationist, turns out to be far more credible and troublesome to science than those criticisms warranted. What do you think of Paul Davies, from the Australian centre for Astrobiology? he and some collegues have some interesting things to say about the speed of light slowing down... If the Speed of light is decaying as some say, then the appearant age of the universe is way off. WAY Off! There's your answer, in the scientific frame... The Speed of light is not absolute! I didn't think it wise to post the whole article here, though it is a short one. but here is the link and then a quote from Paul Davies form another source: Einstein's relativity theory hits a speed bump Question: Does the monotheistic tradition of an intelligible universe have any impact on modern science? answer from Paul Davies, theoretical physicist / Australian Centre for Astrobiology:
”The worldview of a scientist, even the most atheistic scientist, is that essentially of Monotheism. It is a belief, which is accepted as an article of faith, that the universe is ordered in an intelligible way.
Now, you couldn’t be a scientist if you didn’t believe these two things. If you didn’t think there was an underlying order in nature, you wouldn’t bother to do it, because there is nothing to be found. And if you didn’t believe it was intelligible, you’d give up because there is no point if human beings can’t come to understand it. But scientists do, as a matter of faith, accept that the universe is ordered and at least partially intelligible to human beings. And that is what underpins the entire scientific enterprise. And that is a theological position. It is absolutely ”theo’ when you look at history. It comes from a theological worldview. That doesn’t mean you have to buy into the religion, or buy into the theology, but it is very, very significant in historical terms; that that is where it comes from and that scientists today, unshakably retain that worldview, as an act of faith. You cannot prove it logically has to be the case, that the universe is rational and intelligible. It could easily have been otherwise. It could have been arbitrary, it could have been absurd, it could have been utterly beyond human comprehension. It’s not! And scientists just take this for granted for the most part, and I think it’s a really important point that needs to be made.’
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5870 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
This answer to the question of how a Biblical worldview can support the evidence of stars, is more valuable to me than you can conceivably know... my knowsy friend.
And although I try very hard to remember that my battle is not with flesh, but with Spirit, I could not contain the glee with which I present an answer to this threads question. And it is not mine, but the answer of well respected theoretical Physicists. So in case your already familliar with the idea, and thought it to be the hoax of some nut creationist, think again... The speed of light is slowing down... Einstein's relativity theory hits a speed bump
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5870 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
See message 113 &114
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5870 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Well, some conclusions are supported by evidence You are right, I apologize! Now scroll up to message 113...
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5870 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
They are subject to change as new evidence surfaces but they are not constructs we are free to arbitrarily build. Remember that tidbit, because on that, we will always agree! We do not create reality... it created us!
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9003 From: Canada Joined: |
Tha is NOT what that article is about. There is NOTHING in there about light slowing down.
You should stop sounding like a know it all when you are misreading the material you post. Including Message 113. This is talking about "intelligible" NOT "intelligent".
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5870 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
What's wrong with you? Don't read the quote form message 113. It is from another source, but simply the same physicist as the article link.. click the link, and read the article!
Here is a quote form that article:If the speed of light was close to infinity, immediately after the Big Bang, as Davies believes it may have been, our theories about the way energy cooled to form matter, giving rise to stars, planets and people, could be completely wrong. Still, correcting Einstein is no small feat and is likely to attract controversy, perhaps even animosity from scientific colleagues. "When I first heard about these observations . . . I was, frankly, not only sceptical about it, I was appalled," Davies says. "I thought it was horrible. The last thing we wanted in theoretical physics was to have something like this." What article did you read? Edited by Rob, : No reason given. Edited by Rob, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Percy writes: Just out of curiousity, what's a Darwin geologist? But there's no scientific debate. Even before Darwin geologists had already established that the world was far older than the account in Genesis implies. “There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way” --C.S.Lewis
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