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Author Topic:   YEC Problem with Science Above and Beyond Evolution
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 166 of 312 (325825)
06-24-2006 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by ringo
06-24-2006 7:35 PM


Re: Creo Scientists
There are many areas where YEC "science" could be proving itself, but isn't.
read some yec documents on the web. i think you'll find it mostly exists to just to counter evolution. it doesn't do anything on its own, just pokes holes in science. it's not a science, because it doesn't predict, and it's not testable or falsifiable. all it tries to do is offer an alternative explanation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by ringo, posted 06-24-2006 7:35 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by ringo, posted 06-24-2006 8:40 PM arachnophilia has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 167 of 312 (325828)
06-24-2006 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by arachnophilia
06-24-2006 8:21 PM


Re: Creo Scientists
arachnophilia writes:
read some yec documents on the web. i think you'll find it mostly exists to just to counter evolution.
Of course. That's my point. (Ya didn't think I was a YEC, didja? )
If there was any science to it, we'd see competing YEC biology, competing YEC geology, competing YEC paleontology.... If they could produce anything useful, they would.
We don't even see "real" YEC scientists come on EvC to explain and defend their YEC "theories". Why not? We have a good number of real evo scientists here. Why do the YEC "scientists" leave it to the Faith-ful?

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 8:21 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by jar, posted 06-24-2006 8:46 PM ringo has not replied
 Message 169 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 8:48 PM ringo has not replied
 Message 173 by iano, posted 06-24-2006 8:55 PM ringo has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 168 of 312 (325829)
06-24-2006 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by ringo
06-24-2006 8:40 PM


YECistas also like to palm the pea
They claim that conditions changed at the Fall. But then when you are not looking, they try to palm that pea so they can play with physics at the flood too.
YECs are simply conmen. They are hucksters, cheating folk on the street corner with a Three Card Monte.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by ringo, posted 06-24-2006 8:40 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 8:50 PM jar has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 169 of 312 (325830)
06-24-2006 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by ringo
06-24-2006 8:40 PM


Re: Creo Scientists
Of course. That's my point. (Ya didn't think I was a YEC, didja? )
no no, of course not. i'm just bored of subtlety.
If there was any science to it, we'd see competing YEC biology, competing YEC geology, competing YEC paleontology.... If they could produce anything useful, they would.
We don't even see "real" YEC scientists come on EvC to explain and defend their YEC "theories". Why not? We have a good number of real evo scientists here. Why do the YEC "scientists" leave it to the Faith-ful?
there was a story recently about a group that seeks to get science and religion to play like nice little children hosting a conference on id. they generated so much interest, and had such interesting lectures that they offered grants for actual scientific research in the area.
no one even applied.
not one.
Edited by arachnophilia, : evil evil tags


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by ringo, posted 06-24-2006 8:40 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Faith, posted 06-24-2006 8:56 PM arachnophilia has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 170 of 312 (325831)
06-24-2006 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by arachnophilia
06-24-2006 8:15 PM


Re: squirrelly definitions
Arachnid writes:
Faith writes:
That's fine. I already said paleontology has to go in my first message on this thread.
...all of paleontology?
As I've said half a dozen times already, OF COURSE Paleontology is one of the sciences that is most at odds with YEC. What's strange about that? I nevertheless assume there's a lot of everyday science they do too that isn't a complete loss.
From my Message 9 which was answering Message 1 in detail:
anglagard writes:
Paleontology - ages of fossils would require recalibration, current evolutionary relationships would be nonexistant.
Faith writes:
That is for sure.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 8:15 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 8:54 PM Faith has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 171 of 312 (325832)
06-24-2006 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by jar
06-24-2006 8:46 PM


Re: YECistas also like to palm the pea
ever tried getting a yec to explain their terms and use specifics?
YECs are simply conmen. They are hucksters, cheating folk on the street corner with a Three Card Monte.
ever tried getting 3-card monte hucksters to play with their cards facing up?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by jar, posted 06-24-2006 8:46 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by jar, posted 06-24-2006 8:58 PM arachnophilia has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 172 of 312 (325833)
06-24-2006 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Faith
06-24-2006 8:49 PM


Re: squirrelly definitions
As I've said half a dozen times already, OF COURSE Paleontology is one of the sciences that is most at odds with YEC. What's strange about that? I nevertheless assume there's a lot of everyday science they do too that isn't a complete loss.
yes, so you say. however, you have been unwilling (or unable) to define what is even objectionable to yec's. nor have you provided an answer to my question in Message 116
depending on your answer regarding what exactly is out, with regards to "macro" evolutionary relationships, we can then begin to determine just how much "everday science" done by paleontologists is a complete loss.
but until you define your terms, you are just speculating into a field that you admittedly know nothing about, in vague terms, and claiming "it will all work out." that's not debate, or discussion -- that's patronizing and arrogant.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Faith, posted 06-24-2006 8:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Faith, posted 06-24-2006 9:02 PM arachnophilia has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 173 of 312 (325834)
06-24-2006 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by ringo
06-24-2006 8:40 PM


Re: Creo Scientists
We have a good number of real evo scientists here.
Not down at the PEH thread we don't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by ringo, posted 06-24-2006 8:40 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by ringo, posted 06-24-2006 9:00 PM iano has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 174 of 312 (325835)
06-24-2006 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by arachnophilia
06-24-2006 8:48 PM


Re: Creo Scientists
All this crap about creationist motivations is off topic and illegitimate argument in any case. Creationists ARE geared to answering evolutionism at this point. Nothing wrong with that, it's exactly what they should be doing. There aren't that many of them. We can hope that eventually we'll have some good independent creationist science too. It will come.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 8:48 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 8:59 PM Faith has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 175 of 312 (325836)
06-24-2006 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by arachnophilia
06-24-2006 8:50 PM


YECistas explain their terms?
ever tried getting a yec to explain their terms and use specifics?
Well actually, yes. Funny you should ask.
In this very thread, beginning back at Message 57 and on at least six messages since then, in this VERY thread, I have asked Faith to tell us when Creation, the alleged Fall and the asserted Flood happened. You would think that these might be things YECs knew since they are the basis of their mythology.
But would you believe it, I got no response, not one single answer. Looks like they are not just ignorant of the world they live in and science in general, looks like they are pretty ignorant of their own mythology.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 8:50 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 9:01 PM jar has replied
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 06-24-2006 9:09 PM jar has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 176 of 312 (325837)
06-24-2006 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Faith
06-24-2006 8:56 PM


Re: Creo Scientists
Creationists ARE geared to answering evolutionism at this point. Nothing wrong with that, it's exactly what they should be doing.
that's not science. that's explaining away, and as evidenced here, hand-waving.
We can hope that eventually we'll have some good independent creationist science too. It will come.
well, yeah, if you guys get around to formulating a testable hypothesis. but we can't even get you to define your terms. i think that speaks quite effectively as to creationist motivations, as does the gish gallop being done here...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Faith, posted 06-24-2006 8:56 PM Faith has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 177 of 312 (325838)
06-24-2006 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by iano
06-24-2006 8:55 PM


Re: Creo Scientists
iano writes:
We have a good number of real evo scientists here.
Not down at the PEH thread we don't.
With all due respect to those who have tried to make it work, the Cesspool Showcase is a complete and utter waste of time.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by iano, posted 06-24-2006 8:55 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by iano, posted 06-24-2006 9:11 PM ringo has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 178 of 312 (325839)
06-24-2006 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by jar
06-24-2006 8:58 PM


Re: YECistas explain their terms?
Well actually, yes. Funny you should ask.
hmm, yes, that DOES sound familiar.
my Message 116 still stands unanswered -- i can't even get a yec to explain exactly how deep the objections go.
But would you believe it, I got no response, not one single answer. Looks like they are not just ignorant of the world they live in and science in general, looks like they are pretty ignorant of their own mythology.
you don't have to tell me that!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by jar, posted 06-24-2006 8:58 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Faith, posted 06-24-2006 9:05 PM arachnophilia has replied
 Message 185 by jar, posted 06-24-2006 9:15 PM arachnophilia has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 179 of 312 (325840)
06-24-2006 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by arachnophilia
06-24-2006 8:54 PM


Re: squirrelly definitions
This thread is not for getting specific. I consider it a LOT to have been accomplished on this thread to get two scientific descriptions of everyday scientific work on the table where it is clear that one is fine with YEC and the other probably completely fine with YEC.
If you are having a problem with definitions that's your problem.
Your mangling of what Henry Morris said doesn't bode well for your ability to understand a definition even if I provided one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 8:54 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 9:10 PM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 180 of 312 (325842)
06-24-2006 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by arachnophilia
06-24-2006 9:01 PM


Re: YECistas explain their terms?
OFF TOPIC!!! You and jar are doing exactly what Moose said would happen to this thread, taking it into minutiae of scientific questions, WHICH IS NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 9:01 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 9:13 PM Faith has replied

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