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Member (Idle past 837 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: YEC Problem with Science Above and Beyond Evolution | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
while a testament to the wonders of the universe given to ignorant and earth-bound ancient hebrews would be truly inspiring, why would god do such a thing, besides to prove himself? sure, he could have given us the encyclopedia galactica had he wanted -- but would the people he was giving it to understand it? would we understand it today?
Okay, that's a possibility. But that would make it a simple minded explanation that could be understood by the people of that time. It would not make it correct 21st century science.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1344 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
exactly. we tell our kids similar stories.
but you don't see anyone arguing for "santa claus physics" or "the stork theory of birth."
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
NO LAWS changed EVER as far as I know. I said that I thought.
CONDITIONS changed. Changed at the Fall, changed at the Flood, both.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
But that would make it a simple minded explanation that could be understood by the people of that time. It would not make it correct 21st century science. Nobody claims the Bible is science. BUT IT IS TRUTH! What causes all this contention is Science's daring to claim there was no Flood and that human beings descended from the primordial ooze along with everything else. If science is going to contradict a couple of basic Biblical tenets, we have a war on our hands. God's word speaks to all people in all times and places. That's its genius. There is nothing limited about God's word. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well, you said that genetic potential was greater before the Fall, is that correct?
You also have said that things like radioactive decay changed at the Fall. Now you need to go into some specifics. There is no Biblical support that I know of for any changing things at the Flood. This is the problem Faith. You seem unable to tell us what the hell the YEC position is, when things happened, what happened, in fact NOTHING of any significance.
Faith writes: NO LAWS changed EVER as far as I know. I said that I thought. CONDITIONS changed. Changed at the Fall, changed at the Flood, both. So are you now saying that radioactive decay did not change at the Fall? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What causes all this contention is Science's daring to claim there was no Flood and that human beings descended from the primordial ooze along with everything else. Science doesn't claim there was no flood, it is GOD's creation, the universe that claims there was no flood. Argue with GOD, he is the one that created the evidence. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Nobody claims the Bible is science. BUT IT IS TRUTH!
In exactly the same way that when parents tell their children about Santa Claus, IT IS TRUTH.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1344 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Nobody claims the Bible is science. BUT IT IS TRUTH! quote: God's word speaks to all people in all times and places. That's its genius. There is nothing limited about God's word. yes, i agree. it's a very beautiful and profound, and important text. but does it need to be a science textbook to be of value, and contain truth?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Well, you said that genetic potential was greater before the Fall, is that correct? No, I said the original Kinds had enormous genetic potential. Over many generations it would *gradually* decrease in the different branches or races, due to the usual causes like geographic isolation of populations and death. The Flood would of course have eliminated a LOT of genetic potentials from all Kinds.
You also have said that things like radioactive decay changed at the Fall. I believe I said conditions might have been appreciably different than they are now so that decay rate would be very different than a uniformitarian assumption would dictate.
Now you need to go into some specifics. There is no Biblical support that I know of for any changing things at the Flood. Really? A worldwide Flood in which "fountains of the deep" broke up and rain poured down from the sky for the first time ever, in endless torrents for weeks on end, wouldn't have changed things? The antediluvian world is said to have been watered by "mists." Most of it is inference of course. Only a dope expects the Bible to spell out every event and give every implication and leave nothing to intelligence.
This is the problem Faith. You seem unable to tell us what the hell the YEC position is, when things happened, what happened, in fact NOTHING of any significance. Who said I'm unable? Your demanding that on this thread is off topic and bullying as usual. I was doing some decent work supporting the YEC position on everyday science in relation to the OP list of sciences before you decided to derail it.
Faith writes: NO LAWS changed EVER as far as I know. I said that I thought. CONDITIONS changed. Changed at the Fall, changed at the Flood, both.
So are you now saying that radioactive decay did not change at the Fall? See above.
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MangyTiger Member (Idle past 6354 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
Science doesn't claim there was no flood, it is GOD's creation, the universe that claims there was no flood. Without wishing to be too pedantic I disagree. The Universe doesn't claim there was no flood - it states it absolutely and definitively.
What causes all this contention is Science's daring to claim there was no Flood and that human beings descended from the primordial ooze along with everything else.
(My bold) This comment form Faith illustrates something I've never understood about Biblical literalists. Essentially they're saying that we shouldn't use the intellect and brains their God gave us to examine the Universe that He created - you either follow the evidence all the way to where it leads or you may as well not bother starting. Oops! Wrong Planet
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Science doesn't claim there was no flood, it is GOD's creation, the universe that claims there was no flood. Argue with GOD, he is the one that created the evidence. You guys have the most absurd delusion going here. You look at the universe and say there was no flood and claim the universe said that instead of that it's your looking-at-it that's getting it wrong. You don't even know you are believing your own senses over God. What self-deception. You actually think that YOUR OWN JUDGMENT of the evidence IS the evidence. You're just trusting your own subjective reading and you don't even recognize it. And you carry on and on and on about this. This is exactly WHY God inspired His word, because people are such idiots they think what they think is the truth. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Well, if you want to put yourself in the place of Pilate and question the truth of God I'm afraid that's very appropriate in this context.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Santa Claus is not truth, and I hurt for you every time you say something against God's truth.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: I believe I said conditions might have been appreciably different than they are now so that decay rate would be very different than a uniformitarian assumption would dictate. Okay, so are you saying that the decay rates changed at the fall? That really is just a yes or no question.
The Flood would of course have eliminated a LOT of genetic potentials from all Kinds. Why? Every KIND was on the boat. Is that correct? So how would the flood eliminate genetic potential? And we agree that at the time of the Fall Adam and Eve were the only humans. The flood by the way eliminated all of the races except for eight people IIRC. So it doesn't much matter if there were other races before the flood, and races existing after the flood have to be descendants and descendents of Noah and company. Is that correct? jar said:
You seem unable to tell us what the hell the YEC position is, when things happened, what happened, in fact NOTHING of any significance. to which Faith retorted:
Who said I'm unable? Your demanding that on this thread is off topic and bullying as usual. I was doing some decent work supporting the YEC position on everyday science in relation to the OP list of sciences before you decided to derail it. How can it be off topic if the topic is "YEC Problem with Science Above and Beyond Evolution?" Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
This comment form Faith illustrates something I've never understood about Biblical literalists. Essentially they're saying that we shouldn't use the intellect and brains their God gave us to examine the Universe that He created - you either follow the evidence all the way to where it leads or you may as well not bother starting. Nobody is against using your intellect. The point is your intellect is flawed and you misjudge the evidence and refuse to recognize that. When you start out believing your own mind over the word of God you are already off on the wrong track. There is no lack of intellect involved in the exploration of the world ACCORDING to God's word. But you've rejected God's word and can't ever get it right because of that. Intellect BEGINS there, and only goes wrong otherwise.
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