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Author Topic:   How do creationists explain stars?
Percy
Member
Posts: 22479
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 166 of 297 (326118)
06-25-2006 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Rob
06-25-2006 10:28 AM


Re: what debate?
Rob writes:
I can understand your thinking, but when dealing with the age of stars, we must be willing to admit that we do not know.
Why would we admit we do not know something for which we have much evidence? Naturally by "know" I mean in the scientifically tentative sense.
Rather than arguing on the basis of evidence for and against an ancient age for stars you seem to be using a more general argument that there are things science can't know. General arguments concerning the limits of scientific inquiry belong in the [forum=-11] forum.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Rob, posted 06-25-2006 10:28 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Rob, posted 06-25-2006 1:21 PM Percy has replied

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5869 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 167 of 297 (326126)
06-25-2006 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Percy
06-25-2006 1:00 PM


Re: what debate?
Why would we admit we do not know something for which we have much evidence? Naturally by "know" I mean in the scientifically tentative sense.
Percy, I know what you mean, but strongly disagree. The reason is that the metaphysical implications of tentatively knowing thse things that are repeated by TV science programs are enormous...
And in that way, science is affecting things that it admits it cannot answer for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Percy, posted 06-25-2006 1:00 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Percy, posted 06-25-2006 3:05 PM Rob has not replied
 Message 169 by rgb, posted 06-25-2006 8:02 PM Rob has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22479
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 168 of 297 (326158)
06-25-2006 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Rob
06-25-2006 1:21 PM


Re: what debate?
Rob writes:
Percy, I know what you mean, but strongly disagree. The reason is that the metaphysical implications of tentatively knowing thse things that are repeated by TV science programs are enormous...
If you want to debate the age of stars, this thread is the place. If you want to debate the limits of scientific inquiry then propose a new thread over at [forum=-25].
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Rob, posted 06-25-2006 1:21 PM Rob has not replied

rgb
Inactive Member


Message 169 of 297 (326181)
06-25-2006 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Rob
06-25-2006 1:21 PM


Re: what debate?
Rob writes
quote:
The reason is that the metaphysical implications of tentatively knowing thse things that are repeated by TV science programs are enormous...
I find most of the so-called science programs out there to be either oversimplified versions of elementary science text books or outright misrepresentations of what we do know. For example, I have been quite annoyed with the science and history channels having programs on the supernatural and present things like alien abductions and ghosts as facts.
But to relate this to the age of stars, you shouldn't put too much faith in tv. They care more for ratings than the truth.
And just so you know, your girlfriend Ann Coulter embraises Einstein's relativity as both scientific and "godly" in her new book The Church of Liberalism: Godless. You should read it.
Edited by rgb, : No reason given.

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 Message 167 by Rob, posted 06-25-2006 1:21 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Rob, posted 06-27-2006 12:53 AM rgb has replied

PetVet2Be
Inactive Member


Message 170 of 297 (326188)
06-25-2006 9:00 PM


Hi all I'm new here. The Creation vs. Evolution topic is one of my favorites. I am a Creationist. I will admit I didn't read the whole 12 pages of this topic but I am going to answer the original answer with the only answer that fits the evidence we have today. God made the stars about 6000 years ago and they are all slowly dying. We have not observed one star being formed ever. In fact the process described in science text books contradicts itself. In order for stars to form the gases would have to swirl rapidly to form a gravitational force. This has been observed. What has not been observed is the formation turning into a star. This is because the swirling motion creates heat energy and this energy creates an outward force that overpowers the gravitational force way before a star has time to form.

Matt G.

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by jar, posted 06-25-2006 9:09 PM PetVet2Be has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 171 of 297 (326190)
06-25-2006 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by PetVet2Be
06-25-2006 9:00 PM


Welcome to EvC but seldom has so much misinformation been stuffed into one first message as in yours.
To begin your education on stars, here is a link to some pictures of stellar nurseries, stars being formed.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by PetVet2Be, posted 06-25-2006 9:00 PM PetVet2Be has not replied

PetVet2Be
Inactive Member


Message 172 of 297 (326243)
06-25-2006 11:56 PM


Thanks for the greeting. That Eagles Nest isnt all its cracked up to be. http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i2/stars.asp Check it out the evidence is not there.

Matt G.

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by nwr, posted 06-26-2006 12:27 AM PetVet2Be has not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 173 of 297 (326252)
06-26-2006 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by PetVet2Be
06-25-2006 11:56 PM


Check it out the evidence is not there.
Yes, sure. Nobody has ever seen a star form.
I guess trees don't grow either. Nobody has ever seen a tree grow. If you look at a tree in the evening, its the same size as it was in the morning. So obviously, trees don't grow. But every now and then God poofs the old tree out of existence, and poofs a new and slightly larger tree into existence.
#end sarcasm

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by PetVet2Be, posted 06-25-2006 11:56 PM PetVet2Be has not replied

PetVet2Be
Inactive Member


Message 174 of 297 (326259)
06-26-2006 12:40 AM


*Chuckles* Of cource you dont see a tree grow but the evidence is there. I planted a tree 3 years ago in my back yard. When planted it was 6 inches tall. Now it is about 7 feet tall. My point is we have not seen stars form. There are no new stars as far as we can tell. In fact all we see are dying stars. All stars are running out of fuel and energy.

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by nwr, posted 06-26-2006 12:50 AM PetVet2Be has replied
 Message 176 by arachnophilia, posted 06-26-2006 12:50 AM PetVet2Be has not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 175 of 297 (326262)
06-26-2006 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by PetVet2Be
06-26-2006 12:40 AM


Of cource you dont see a tree grow but the evidence is there.
And likewise, the evidence is there for star formation.
My point is we have not seen stars form.
We see them in various stages of formation. The evidence is there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by PetVet2Be, posted 06-26-2006 12:40 AM PetVet2Be has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by PetVet2Be, posted 06-26-2006 1:36 AM nwr has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1364 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 176 of 297 (326263)
06-26-2006 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by PetVet2Be
06-26-2006 12:40 AM


hello again.
just a tip. when replying to someone, it's best to use the lgrb (little green reply button) below their post. this sends them a little email notification (if they have that option checked off) and helps everyone follow the threads of communication, and who was answering whom.
(welcome to evc, btw)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by PetVet2Be, posted 06-26-2006 12:40 AM PetVet2Be has not replied

PetVet2Be
Inactive Member


Message 177 of 297 (326281)
06-26-2006 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by nwr
06-26-2006 12:50 AM


Where is this evidence you claim to have? This an interesting article on this topic. http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i2/stars.asp
As I said there is no evidence for the formation or growth of stars.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by nwr, posted 06-26-2006 12:50 AM nwr has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by RickJB, posted 06-26-2006 5:58 AM PetVet2Be has replied

RickJB
Member (Idle past 5011 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 178 of 297 (326322)
06-26-2006 5:58 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by PetVet2Be
06-26-2006 1:36 AM


pet writes:
As I said there is no evidence for the formation or growth of stars.
Pure unadulterated B-S. There's plenty of evidence.
Why not try visitng a NASA website rather than relying on AiG?
Here's one example..
http://origins.jpl.nasa.gov/library/exnps/ch03_0.html
Or just google for hundreds of pictures.
formation of stars - Google Search

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by PetVet2Be, posted 06-26-2006 1:36 AM PetVet2Be has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by ramoss, posted 06-26-2006 9:30 AM RickJB has not replied
 Message 180 by PetVet2Be, posted 06-26-2006 9:31 AM RickJB has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 632 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 179 of 297 (326366)
06-26-2006 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by RickJB
06-26-2006 5:58 AM


Hum. Let me see. Nasa, a government agency, or Answers in Genesis, a faith base organisation that makes outragously inaccurate scientific claims?? NASA or AIG?? Nasa or AIG.
I think Nasa would have the better science after all

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by RickJB, posted 06-26-2006 5:58 AM RickJB has not replied

PetVet2Be
Inactive Member


Message 180 of 297 (326367)
06-26-2006 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by RickJB
06-26-2006 5:58 AM


NASA has still not observed the formation of stars. That link BTW was mostly about formation of planets. The laws of physics deny the possibility of stars forming.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by RickJB, posted 06-26-2006 5:58 AM RickJB has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by CK, posted 06-26-2006 9:42 AM PetVet2Be has not replied
 Message 182 by cavediver, posted 06-26-2006 9:43 AM PetVet2Be has not replied
 Message 183 by nwr, posted 06-26-2006 9:48 AM PetVet2Be has not replied
 Message 184 by Percy, posted 06-26-2006 9:48 AM PetVet2Be has replied
 Message 193 by lfen, posted 06-27-2006 4:57 PM PetVet2Be has not replied

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