Opinions and conclusions about Religion and God.

Can they explain why that is? There is no reason that they may have which usurps my reason to disagree. Each to their own in that case. You and they differ - so what? If (and I say this for the purposes of discussion) God exists, then you and your friends are not as free to act in whatever mannner they/you chose. Freewill within prescribed boundaries is not the same as free will to do anything at all that you please.

That's a no then?Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

Again I have trouble following you. Are you saying that my friends and I are able to act in a socialy constuctive way with each other (after all we are friends) without needing a god, or are you saying this is not true?You also say "You and they differ..." I assume you mean from you and not that I differ from my friends (in moral outlook). Please could you give me some clarification?

One needs a question to exist before one can answer yes/noDo you agree?

Your friends and you are able to act in 'socially constructive' ways whilst all the while not believing in God. Fair enough.But since when does your not believing in God mean that God doesn't believe in you? And in ways which make 'socially constructive' a stronger propensity than 'socially destructive'In other words. How do you escape God if he exists?

I agree; the question exists in the form of the following text:Can you tell me where the Neanderthals went when they died?If yes, please tell me where they go.

Is this your god affecting me? Diminishing my free will? Sounds like (another) believe or else threat Iano.

Not diminished. Kept within boundaries. You can chose A or B but not C. Restriction not diminishnent Not at all. You presume you are entirely free when in fact you are not. God makes you and decides that you (as a made being) will stand before him to give an account of yourself. What's your beef?

That sounds like a Just wait Till Your Father Gets Home Threat.But ma, you said he went for milk when I was just a baby, and never came back..

Quote.. You presume you are entirely free when in fact you are not. God makes you and decides that you (as a made being) will stand before him to give an account of yourself. What's your beef? ...quoteand what gives god the moral right to judge , give that he creates a being and allows it , ok limited and with penalties , free choice on how to act .Even us feeble humans can see that some will act in oppersistion to such a repersive order ..so it must follow god could for see such actions ... therefore he is setting up people to fail ...Again even us humans know direct education , not threats is the better way to bring some one around to your view .....

My beef is that I don't want your god sticking his face and arse into my business. You are saying quite clearly that I have no choice in the matter. Your god is not the xian god I was taught as a child.

I don't get you. God says "you may operate within these boundaries, and not outside them. If you operate outside them there will be consequences". Then a person operates outside the boundaries and you think it is immoral of God to judge the person as having done so and applying the penalty due. Thats basic law and order Ikabod. The Bible tells us that all will act in opposition to Gods standard. No one will reach it no matter how hard they try. God is not setting us up for a fall, we are BORN fallen. 'Born sinners' means sin will follow because sinning is in our natures. Just like a foxes killing of chickens is in its nature, sin is in ours. To a farmer, foxes are a pest and he will shoot them on sight. Same thing for sinners. Sinners are no use to God. Ultimately they will be thrown on the rubbish heap. There is nothing immoral in this as such. God isn't threatening: "Do this or else!" is a threat. God is telling us that we cannot do it. That there is no way for us to keep to his standard. As such we are rubbish and will be disposed of unless HE does something to change us, to transform us from being rubbish into something useful. He offers to do this for anybody who wants itThe Bible is all the education you need. It teachs (in ample fashion) what God does in response to sin in man. And it teaches what the way out of the dilemma is for anyone who doesn't want to be rubbish.Rubbish can chose to remain rubbish if it wants however

Do you really think we are rubbish? I think people are pretty great (when I'm in a good mood) really. Our brains are the most complex arrangement of matter and energy we have yest to discover in the universe.You say HE needs to do something from changing us. Why did HE not do it in the womb? Prevention is far better than cure don't you think?

Its a hackneyed old phrase but a "paradigm shift" is what's needed here. You are a manufactured good. You belong to him. God (for he is your God too) will 'stick his face in your business' whether you like it or not. He has every right to do with you what he wants.You have free will within boundaries allowed you by him. Even when those boundaries allow you to do things which he does not consider in your best interests. He allows you to spit in his face and call him a fool. He allows you to curse him if that is what you want to do. But you cannot be free of him. You might want that after this life God would cause you to cease to exist - but that is not within the boundary he sets. All will be called to account for the expression of the will he gave them to express.That is just the way it is. Shift your paradigmEdited by iano, : No reason given.

I think people are great too. They are made in his image and likeness and when they reflect that aspect of him there is nothing more beautiful than that (bar him). But people are crap too - that is their falleness coming out. That is ugly. Gods purpose is to restore us to that which he intended us to be. That is what this whole gig is about. If that cannot be done then for all its complexity and wonder it is still a malfunctioning version of what was intended and is considered by him to be rubbish.God is perfect and can only relate to that which is perfect: like can relate to like. His purpose is to make us perfect so that we can relate to him. It circumvents a free will which prefers to reject his advances. Some want him to "stop sticking his face into my business". Your suggestion would have made us automatons. You cannot relate to automatons.God is a personal God. He relates one-to-one. But there must be a one to relate to.