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Author Topic:   Opinions and conclusions about Religion and God.
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 62 of 280 (321416)
06-14-2006 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by iano
06-14-2006 10:39 AM


Re: very depressing view!
iano writes:
Justice doesn't care who pays the fine.
Don't start that silliness again. You might as well say that justice doesn't care who goes to jail as long as somebody does. It isn't justice unless the right person pays the penalty.
Justice may be blind, but it isn't as stupid as you make it out to be.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 83 of 280 (321477)
06-14-2006 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by iano
06-14-2006 1:37 PM


Re: Die Before You Try Theology
iano writes:
It took me 38 years and my mother 55.
I was practically born where you are now. I could quote scripture long before I could read it. I was as convinced as you are by the time I was twelve (and I probably knew the Bible better then than you do now ).
But I moved on. There are lots of people around here who have been where you are and have moved on. Your biggest mistake is thinking that you "have it" and we don't. Many of us "had it" and realized that it wasn't "it" after all.
(You're a bit like the eight-year-old who looks at women's underwear in the Sears catalogue and says, "It doesn't get any better than this.")
... the die-first-find-out-later Gospels....
The Gospel is not about dying at all. It's about living. The best way to live this life is to enjoy it as much as you can and to help othera enjoy their lives as much as they can. There is much more satisfaction in that than in your empty beliefs.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 184 of 280 (323854)
06-20-2006 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by iano
06-20-2006 8:44 AM


iano writes:
Defending ones view rigorously is not the same as taking offence.
I think you meant "vigorously" - not "rigorously". The lack of rigor is pretty obvious to everybody.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 196 of 280 (326310)
06-26-2006 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Phat
06-26-2006 3:15 AM


Re: >>>>>>Father Ian<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Phat writes:
Iano writes:
The gospel is about killing people Phat - surely you know that.
I could argue this point, if just for practice.
I'd like to see that.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 219 of 280 (326523)
06-26-2006 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by iano
06-26-2006 2:20 PM


iano writes:
I found God and then went to the Bible and found the Bible to be the 'book' which described that which I already knew of God as I had found him.
I don't believe that.
Let's say you were in a complete vacuum before you "met" God - never heard of Him. After you met Him, what prompted you to look at the Bible at all? Why not the Qur'an? Why not the Upanishads? Why not the Book of Mormon? Why not Dianetics?
How much of your "knowledge" of God is really based on your "meeting" and how much did you really learn from the Bible? How much did you learn from people telling you what the Bible says? Is it just coincidence that you found a church full of like-minded people?
(Remember, your Bible "knowledge" and "understanding" are on record here. )

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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 222 of 280 (326534)
06-26-2006 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by iano
06-26-2006 5:04 PM


iano writes:
Fine
Thank you for that thought-provoking answer. I'm sure we're all suitably impressed.
How about an answer to any or all of the eight questions I asked?

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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 251 of 280 (326788)
06-27-2006 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by iano
06-27-2006 10:12 AM


iano writes:
God permits man to commit evil if man wants. But God warns that there is punishment for the evil that man does. Surely any natural sense of Justice you hold to permits that notion some airtime
Of course not. That notion is sheer nonsense.
God can warn us of natural consequences - e.g. step off a cliff and you fall - not that we need those warnings from an external source. But He doesn't have to provide additional consequences - i.e. "punishment". If He did that, it would be vengeance, not justice.
There are two ways I can express choice: within the boundaries he finds acceptable or outside the boundaries he finds acceptable.
The boundaries are there for our benefit - not God's. If we step outside the boundaries, there are natural consequences. There is no need for additional punishment.
Think of a mother telling her child not to play on the street. If he disobeys, there are natural consequences - he might get hit by a car. There is no need for him to be punished on top of that.
Will he learn from a spanking not to disobey? Maybe. But that isn't the kind of punishment you're talking about, is it? You seem to be talking about spanking the child in the hospital, after he has already suffered the consequences of his actions.

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