Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 86 (8945 total)
33 online now:
dwise1, PaulK, Percy (Admin), RAZD, ringo, Thugpreacha (AdminPhat) (6 members, 27 visitors)
Newest Member: ski zawaski
Upcoming Birthdays: ONESOlivia, perfect
Post Volume: Total: 865,398 Year: 20,434/19,786 Month: 831/2,023 Week: 339/392 Day: 29/41 Hour: 3/5


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Flood - Animals and their minimum food requirement
GDR
Member
Posts: 5003
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 31 of 239 (326897)
06-27-2006 4:19 PM


Evolution is the answer
Because of the evolutionary process He only needed one mating pair of amoebas. Now wasn't that easy? :)


Everybody is entitled to my opinion. :)

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33661
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 32 of 239 (326898)
06-27-2006 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Jazzns
06-27-2006 4:16 PM


Re: Can we get a number?
A horse? I would guess that some 90% of the creatures on board the ark were not as big as a horse.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Jazzns, posted 06-27-2006 4:16 PM Jazzns has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by CK, posted 06-27-2006 4:23 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 38 by Jazzns, posted 06-27-2006 4:50 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 131 by nator, posted 07-02-2006 9:17 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
CK
Member (Idle past 2441 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 33 of 239 (326899)
06-27-2006 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Jazzns
06-27-2006 4:16 PM


Re: Can we get a number?
That's a big number - even if we say that 90% of the animals have super-awesome-hibernation-skillz - that leaves us with 3.75 million pounds of food - what volume would that take? (for those better than me with numbers?)

;)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Jazzns, posted 06-27-2006 4:16 PM Jazzns has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Wepwawet, posted 06-27-2006 4:36 PM CK has not yet responded

  
CK
Member (Idle past 2441 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 34 of 239 (326900)
06-27-2006 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
06-27-2006 4:20 PM


Re: Can we get a number?
and how did you come to that figure? From where? On what basis?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 06-27-2006 4:20 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 1206 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 35 of 239 (326902)
06-27-2006 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by CK
06-27-2006 4:04 PM


Re: Why is Faith allowed to drag every fucking topic off course?
Sorry CK. I guess it was my fault because I referenced the detail on Ark construction and compared it to the lack of mention of hibernating animals as Faith was speculating. As usual Faith ignored the context and turned the reference into evidence for her position. Here is the sequence. You be the judge.

Herb writes:

All that detail on the Ark construction and not one peep about hibernation to conserve food.

Faith writes:

All that detail about the construction ought to be enough evidence of the truth of the story.

CK writes:

What does the construction of the Ark have to do with the op? How the material was actually stored is NOT the purpose of this topic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by CK, posted 06-27-2006 4:04 PM CK has not yet responded

  
Wepwawet
Member (Idle past 4422 days)
Posts: 85
From: Texas
Joined: 04-05-2006


Message 36 of 239 (326904)
06-27-2006 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by CK
06-27-2006 4:22 PM


Re: Can we get a number?
You can only get about 12 pounds of hay in a cubic foot of space unless you use a modern bulk compression method which may give you as much as 20 pounds per cubic foot.

Assuming 20 pounds of hay per cubic foot and biblical measurements (450' X 75' X 45') that gives us a total of about 15,200 tons of food assuming every cubic inch was given over to storing food.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by CK, posted 06-27-2006 4:22 PM CK has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by deerbreh, posted 06-27-2006 4:41 PM Wepwawet has not yet responded

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 1206 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 37 of 239 (326905)
06-27-2006 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Wepwawet
06-27-2006 4:36 PM


Re: Can we get a number?
You can only get about 12 pounds of hay in a cubic foot of space unless you use a modern bulk compression method which may give you as much as 20 pounds per cubic foot

I don't think Noah had a conventional baler let alone a bulk baler. Who knows. though. It doesn't say he didn't so that is good enough for some.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Wepwawet, posted 06-27-2006 4:36 PM Wepwawet has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by nator, posted 07-02-2006 9:19 AM deerbreh has not yet responded

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2225 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 38 of 239 (326907)
06-27-2006 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
06-27-2006 4:20 PM


Re: Can we get a number?
Ok fine. Lets give even more leverage. How about an average of 1/10 of a horse.

(11000) * .1 * 15754 = 17.33 million points of food
(4380) * .1 * 15754 = 7 million gallons of water

Using the above ideal compression of 20lbs/ft^3 for the food that is 866500 cubic feet needed for food.

Can someone help with the water calculation?

What is the volume of the ark in cubic feet?

What is the allotted space for food given by Woodmorappe?


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 06-27-2006 4:20 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by DrJones*, posted 06-27-2006 5:05 PM Jazzns has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1984
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 39 of 239 (326911)
06-27-2006 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Jazzns
06-27-2006 4:50 PM


Re: Can we get a number?
Can someone help with the water calculation?

7 X 106 Gallons = 935764 ft3

Thats 58417831 pounds of water.

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Jazzns, posted 06-27-2006 4:50 PM Jazzns has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Jazzns, posted 06-27-2006 5:35 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 3377 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 40 of 239 (326912)
06-27-2006 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Jazzns
06-27-2006 4:16 PM


Re: Can we get a number?
Well to Food daily guidelines, Lets use sedentary male values created by the FDA.

7 calories is an aproximated number between 9 and 4 because 9 calories per gram of fat and 4 calories per gram of protein and carbohydrates.

2000 calories/ 1 day * 7 calories / 1 gram of stuff * 8 people * 365 days / 1 year * 2.205 lbs / 1000 grams = 263 pounds of food per person in one year

that makes about 1840 pounds of food for a year for 8 people at a minimum and that is assuming this special 7 calorie per gram mixture of fat, carbs and proteins is 100% digested by a human.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Jazzns, posted 06-27-2006 4:16 PM Jazzns has not yet responded

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2225 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 41 of 239 (326918)
06-27-2006 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by DrJones*
06-27-2006 5:05 PM


Re: Can we get a number?
Awesome. So lets work with a figure of ~1.8 million cubic feet of supplies.

Does anyone know the volume of the ark?

Does anyone know the volume that Woodmorappe has dog earred for supplies?


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by DrJones*, posted 06-27-2006 5:05 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by ringo, posted 06-27-2006 5:50 PM Jazzns has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17522
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 42 of 239 (326919)
06-27-2006 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Jazzns
06-27-2006 5:35 PM


Re: Can we get a number?
Jazzns writes:

Does anyone know the volume of the ark?

Who would know better than Answers In Genesis?

quote:
The Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits (Genesis 6:15), which is about 140x23x13.5 metres or 459x75x44 feet, so its volume was 43,500 m3 (cubic metres) or 1.54 million cubic feet.


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Jazzns, posted 06-27-2006 5:35 PM Jazzns has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 254 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 43 of 239 (326934)
06-27-2006 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Brian
06-27-2006 1:14 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
Since when has it rained sea water?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Brian, posted 06-27-2006 1:14 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Discreet Label, posted 06-27-2006 8:14 PM iano has responded
 Message 96 by Brian, posted 06-28-2006 11:13 AM iano has not yet responded

  
Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 3377 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 44 of 239 (326943)
06-27-2006 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by iano
06-27-2006 7:52 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
It does not rain sea water but you are making a dangerous assumption that there will not be turbulence present in the water such that sediments, salt, dirt etc will not float at the waterline.

For example take an aquariam fill it with sea water then proceed to rain on it for 40 days and 40 nights with some kind of fresh water spray, after that go ahead and taste the water and tell me how it tastes. Of course you'd have to make a model that would roughly aproximate it raining 40 days and 40 nights as well as add a similar ration of water to the tank as the flood did to the world.

Also if you put a hole below the waterline of the ark, your ark starts to take on water and sink.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by iano, posted 06-27-2006 7:52 PM iano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by iano, posted 06-27-2006 8:41 PM Discreet Label has responded

  
Gary
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 239 (326945)
06-27-2006 8:19 PM


Could immature animals be taken aboard?
I've heard a few creationists say that Noah may have taken immature animals aboard his ark instead of fully grown Tyrannosaurs and such. In this article, Jonathan Sarfati makes that claim. Younger animals would take up less space and need less food, which supposedly makes the whole story slightly less insane so that creationists can accept it as an unadulterated fact of history. A response to this comes to mind that I haven't seen before - that Noah and company would have to go to a great deal of trouble to accumulate all these young animals at the same time. Animals breed at all different times of the year, they grow at different rates, and many are helpless when young. It seems unlikely to me that Jews of circa 2000 BC would have domesticated all kinds (whatever your definition of this word!) of dinosaurs, elephants, and so on, without leaving a trace of any such effort. How could Noah have met the needs of such a large menagerie of animals, many of which no one in his part of the world had even heard of, and especially when many of them are dependent on their parents for milk?

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by jar, posted 06-27-2006 8:24 PM Gary has responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019