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Author Topic:   The Flood - Animals and their minimum food requirement
iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 13 of 239 (326818)
06-27-2006 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by CK
06-27-2006 11:32 AM


CK writes:
Anyone know a water requirement?
No idea CK, but often times a solution can be staring you in the face (hint: look at the title of the thread). Drilling a hole in the side of the ark below the waterline strikes me as an elegant solution. Things a bit tight? Drill another one
CK writes:
You've got to put down the bananas skins for them to slip up on!
Quite...

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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 43 of 239 (326934)
06-27-2006 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Brian
06-27-2006 1:14 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
Since when has it rained sea water?

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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 49 of 239 (326953)
06-27-2006 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Discreet Label
06-27-2006 8:14 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
For example take an aquarium fill it with sea water then proceed to rain on it for 40 days and 40 nights with some kind of fresh water spray, after that go ahead and taste the water and tell me how it tastes.
a school experiment writes:
Direct the students to carefully and slowly add fresh water using the eye dropper, being careful not to disturb the settled colored salt water.
.
.
.
Ask students what implications this might have in the ocean.
Salt densities are less at the surface where eye-dropper-like rain falls than at lower layers?. Make it a lot of rain and you get a layer of fresh water/heavily diluted salt water at the surface? Add less than fussy consumers and bobs-your-hydration problem solved
Also if you put a hole below the waterline of the ark, your ark starts to take on water and sink.
This thing was the size of a football field apparently (upthread). A bilge pump (animal operated) is not exactly going to tax the engineer concerned. I imagine he would make good use of the fact that it would be a post-processing semi-solid sludge he had to deal with - rather than water. It simplifies pump design.

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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 52 of 239 (326957)
06-27-2006 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Discreet Label
06-27-2006 8:46 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
We have an aquarium of unknown depth, a starting salt concentration of unknown concentration, a volume of fresh water of unknown quantity and a resulting salt concentration of unknown concentration.
And less than fussy consumers. Possible.
Besides, a Rain-Collection-Devicetm the size of a football pitch may well be sufficient in itself

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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 55 of 239 (326965)
06-27-2006 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by ringo
06-27-2006 8:54 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
Who said it was leaky? Collect the rain and allow to overflow that which you do not need. Read the post upthread about hibernation to reduce your need to pump to acceptable levels. Horsepower and associated complexity dependant on further hard data as to actual waste disposal requirements. Cannot compute yet.
Also design the ark to sink lower in the water under the weight of the waste matter you don't need to dump overboard in order to act as bait for the fish you are catching (aided by your Animal Powered Net Retraction Systemtm. The Tilapia (the so-called St Peters Fish - the fish who coughed up the coin) is known to eat sewage and sounds like the kind of thing that Noah would have been after
We might also suppose that the fuller effects of the fall were not so apparent then as now. Noah was doing this with a fair few centuries behind his back. He sure was smarter than the average bear. We might suppose that the animals were a lot smarter and less contrary (fallen) as well "Yo Daisy - take 5" might have been all it took by way of team changing
And the maxim that holds now would have held then. Well designed equipment doesn't need much in the way of repair. This stuff was made in Israel not in China. You are a product of the disposable age Ringo. It shows.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 56 of 239 (326966)
06-27-2006 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Discreet Label
06-27-2006 9:01 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
Got a salt concentration in mind - all unknowns considered.
And remember the freshwater collection device mentioned previously

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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 57 of 239 (326970)
06-27-2006 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Discreet Label
06-27-2006 9:01 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
In fact, have we anything to suppose this vessel was seagoing at all? Float her on a OT-style Sea of Galilee and wait for fresh flood waters running down the mountainsides to lift her. Your own, personal, water tank - until the, by now, diluted seas overflow the mountains.
And plenty of fish to eat.
Location, location, location.

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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 60 of 239 (326978)
06-27-2006 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Gary
06-27-2006 9:37 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
The thread supposes an ark and I presume other items contained in the Genesis narrative. Those being a given, all kinds of lesser wonders spring (oops) to mind.
Consequences of multi-century old men knocking up design and build projects of this magnitude allow for reasonable speculation as to what else might have been possible.
When it comes to detailed facts we're all speculating here. And having some fun to boot..
When it comes to belief - well that's your own choice

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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 61 of 239 (326983)
06-27-2006 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by ringo
06-27-2006 9:45 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
Therefore there were joints. Therefore there were leaks.
Non sequitur
It only rained for 40 days. They needed to store what they needed for the remaining 330 days. (And wooden storage tanks also leak. How much of a safety margin do you suppose they'd need?)
See location, location, location hypothesis (that'll get em going) above
My uncle's 40' troller required constant repair
As will he, if he attempts to live to 950 years. They don't make em like they used to: men or boats
Don't know much about boats, do ya?... My guess is it never would have lifted off the ground.
Don't know much about buoyancy do you? The ark was made of wood - nigh on all of which is far less dense than water (which is why boats get built from wood very often) the contents of the ark was air and species which are largely water themselves.
Any sized boat can float.

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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 63 of 239 (326985)
06-27-2006 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Gary
06-27-2006 10:00 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
Had Noah existed, he would have been able to greatly advance technology, but for some reason he did not,
Having seen some of the mess technology has enabled I imagine one might ponder on the wisdom of propagating it. Technology is a double-edged sword (see: The Manhattan Project)
choosing instead to leave not a scrap of evidence of his own existence besides a story so absurd that any thinking person should be able to discount it.
There wasn't much evidence to leave. Especially if one considers the value of wood in a landscape possibly devoid of it. Noah sounds to me like a pragmatic man who would consider his burgeoning familes shelter more important that trying to convince a world of something they wouldn't believe even if it came down and turned water into wine

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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 66 of 239 (326989)
06-27-2006 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by ringo
06-27-2006 10:14 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
Wood swells as it takes on moisture,
Useful tendency that for an informed boat builder with time on his hands - so long as every leak-prone joint utilises that feature of wood. Read: joints that lock tighter together as moisture content increases.
The point is, a little basic engineering takes care of a multitude. Water isn't necessarily as issue at all if the ark took to freshwater. We have unlimited bait, a sewage eating fish and a consumer - sounds like the ark is in business

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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 67 of 239 (326990)
06-27-2006 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Gary
06-27-2006 10:19 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
This thread assumes a massive ark in order for it to float. I'll keep all technological claims within a nautical mile of that assumption - I promise
Why should anyone believe this story?
Because the Bible tells me so

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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 70 of 239 (326999)
06-27-2006 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Wepwawet
06-27-2006 10:40 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
And if Noah was such a technical old geek,
At the age he was he was running at the equivilent of the peak of his intellectual powers if you compared him to us
Consider this stone which forms part of the 1st century bc wall around Jerusalem.
One of the stones in the Wall measures more than 40 feet long, and weighs 400 tons. This is the largest stone ever quarried by man - nothing near its size exists in Greece, in the pyramids, or in Manhattan. No crane today can even lift such a stone. How it got there is an engineering marvel. Others stones are over 100 tons. These stones can be viewed in the archeological tunnels that have been opened in the past few years.
I saw this beast with my own eyes. I tried slipping a piece of paper between its perfectly square edge and the the perfectly square edge of the stone laid next to it. It didn't go in more that an inch before buckling

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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 74 of 239 (327009)
06-27-2006 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by ringo
06-27-2006 10:49 PM


Re: Water Water everywhere, yet not a drop to drink!
The pitch within and without would prevent the wood from absorbing moisture.
This is even better. Look!
There is no need to paint Noah's Ark black - the pitch was probably extracted from pine trees (which might be "gopher wood" anyway). Perfectly water proof, gum based pitch melts easily, has a faint pine odor, looks like a thick varnish, makes a non-slip surface and remains flexible. It can be used as both a coating and an adhesive. Manufacture is simple [3].
Surely this is the perfect material, even by today's standards.
Can you imagine the strength of a finely made tongue-and-groove joint which is glued together? Friccin' impregnable that. "Noah, take a bow (oops)"
Now, how about the topic?
I'm trying to save the topic. According to you the ark would have sunk before anyone got thirsty or hungry enough to require all the food and water we're trying to load on board. Scuttle the ship before she sails as it were
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 75 of 239 (327010)
06-27-2006 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Asgara
06-27-2006 10:57 PM


Sure. It bloody impressive I tell you.
Page not found - aish.com
Under the subheading "Stones" a mouse roll or two down the page
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

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