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Author | Topic: The Flood - Animals and their minimum food requirement | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RickJB Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
iano writes: But why is there a need to take fish into the ark. Not all fish can live in seawater (assuming God didn't "magic" away the salt)! Also, most species are very sensitive to habitat/temperature and a supposed global flood would disrupt or destroy the balance. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
No wonder: how do you kill all aquatic life using water as a medium of destruction? By changing salinity or filling the water up with silt. Or changing its temperature. At least one of those three will kill most of the critters that live in water. And remember: if you kill the copepods and other such plankton, everything else starves.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3978 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
iano writes: how do you kill all aquatic life using water as a medium of destruction? Bury it under continents' worth of silt and debris? Crush it with depth so great (enough to cover mountains, after all) that no fishies can survive in their usual habitat? Suffocate it by washing so much organic material into the oceans that aerobic decay eats up all the dissolved oxygen? AbE: Beat me to it, Coragyps! Edited by Omnivorous, : Nod to Coragyps.
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CK Member (Idle past 4127 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
We already know that Noah and his chums would be killed from trying to breath steam - how would this affect the fishies? wouldn't they more than likely boil to death before anything killed them?
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iano Member (Idle past 1940 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
You may destroy a lot that way. But all? I do scuba diving and you'd want to see the speed at which a purposely sunk wreck-dive boat can accumulate new vegetation. All you need are pockets which do not get destroyed in order to start afresh. Water being an ideal medium for such propagation.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
All you need are pockets which do not get destroyed... Sure. And those pockets are full of cleanish sea water, not anoxic, silty, fresh-to-brackish water. A Floode that deposits the whole geologic column in under a year, like the one Faith wants, is not quite a newly-sunken boat.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3978 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
Yup.
Yum.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3978 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
All you need are pockets which do not get destroyed in order to start afresh. What pockets? Once you cover the existing oceans with another 5 miles or so of water, there are no pockets--just fish paste. Edited by Omnivorous, : typo
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
There is also the issue of depth. A flood that covers the earth will have a major effect and one that will also leave very easily recognized evidence.
For example, even if what some YECs and others who believe in the Biblical Flood are right and there were no high mountain ranges at the time, there would still be hills of some hundreds of feet in height. There was still land, and water did run off so there was some variation in land topography. If you add a water column even just a few hundred feet high you totally change the ecology of the sea floor. What was once at a depth of 60 feet will now be at a depth of several hundred feet, and as anyone who dives knows, the ecology at 60 feet is entirely different than that at 260 feet. But we stray from the topic. To return towards that, I have a question. Folk have said that the main water supply was rain water. IIRC the order of the Biblical event was lots of rain at the beginning, along with one bodacious storm. That was followed by a much longer period where they floated around while the water supposedly ran off. So here are the questions.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3978 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
jar writes: For example, even if what some YECs and others who believe in the Biblical Flood are right and there were no high mountain ranges at the time Ah. No mountains. Right. I missed that part. But I thought Noah was supposed to have landed on a mountain? Was it just a very tiny mountain?
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3911 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
That was after, you know, 4.5 GA worth of geological process happening in 1 year. If Pangea can split and the contenents be realitivly in their current position within 1 year then building a mountain is child's play. But that really is OT.
What people are forgetting regarding some of this whole, "species X couldn't survive" is that YECs can just ad hoc anything around their primary "everything was different concept". Think about it. If we are already talking about taking on a canine kind, cat kind, all with some kind of super abilities that they all lost due to subsequent devolution due to the fall then we can make up all kinds of crap. Maybe there was only 1 fish kind that was durable enough to survive the flood that subsequently lost that durability due to the fall. Same thing for other marine creatures. You can play the ad-hoc game with anything to make it work. Maybe the kinds were smaller then. Maybe the representative proto-cat kind was more like a house cat that after the flood super-awesome-hyper-fast-micro-in-kind-evolved into the bigger cats. Better yet, even more on topic, plants were more nutritious back then before they micro-devolved into the crappy kind we have today. See! Now you can stuff 1.8 million cubic feet of hay into just a few thousand cubic feet of super-awesome-pre-flood-plant-food-stuff. Horray! Self-delusional need to make the flood myth seem plausable is preserved! Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
This attempt by Bible believers to explain the flood scientifically, to undo the claims by science that it didn't happen, and the answers by Bible debunkers to discredit our explanations, finally gets tedious. Predictable.
Let me just ask: If you were as absolutely convinced of the truth of the Bible account of the flood as a fundamentalist is, absolutely without a doubt knowing that it happened as described, knowing that God is the inspirer of the whole thing, how would you go about answering science's contention that it didn't happen? It's too easy to deny the premise so don't go there. Don't answer unless you can really put yourself in this position. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3643 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
Let me just ask: If you were as absolutely convinced of the truth of the Bible account of the flood as a fundamentalist is, absolutely without a doubt knowing that it happened as described, knowing that God is the inspirer of the whole thing, how would you go about answering science's contention that it didn't happen? Great question Faith. You've restored my, err, faith in you Simple, it was a miraculous event. The world was changed beyond recognition. Admittedly, you still run up against the old "surely it's deception for the earth to look old..." but that's run-of-the-mill. Perhaps included in God's promise to Noah was a physical wiping out of the memory of the event from the universe? With a Goddidit-with-a-miracle answer, you can't go wrong And it prevents the "become a Christian because just look at the physical evidence" bullshit I so detest...
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Let me just ask: If you were as absolutely convinced of the truth of the Bible account of the flood as a fundamentalist is, absolutely without a doubt knowing that it happened as described, knowing that God is the inspirer of the whole thing, how would you go about answering science's contention that it didn't happen? Been there and eventually simply had to abandon the belief that the flood happened. BUT... if you want to prove that it did happen, you need to be able to show how every single piece of evidence that refutes the flood myth can be resolved. Some things that will have to be addressed are:
Those would do as a start to simply get the theory on the table for discussion. Without them, there is little the flood supporters can do. Edited by jar, : add "can be resolved" Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes: If you were as absolutely convinced of the truth of the Bible account of the flood as a fundamentalist is, absolutely without a doubt knowing that it happened as described, knowing that God is the inspirer of the whole thing, how would you go about answering science's contention that it didn't happen? Ironically, that's exactly where I'm coming from. As a teenager, I tried to do the calculations - how much flood water, how many animals, how much food, etc. (and this was before Henry Morris commercialized creationism). The problem I had was that every answer produced ten new questions - which you can see happening in this very thread. I gave up on a literal interpretation of Genesis because it can't be done. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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