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Author Topic:   Opinions and conclusions about Religion and God.
iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 272 of 280 (327423)
06-29-2006 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by ramoss
06-29-2006 7:58 AM


Re: Why? Because Jennifer says your worth it
Yet, the sheep and the goats are seperated by their works.
Option 1:
Works the cause of them being deemed sheep.
Option 2:
Works a consequence of them being sheep in the first place.
You say 1 - I say 2. No conclusion based on this passage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by ramoss, posted 06-29-2006 7:58 AM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by PurpleYouko, posted 06-29-2006 10:02 AM iano has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 275 of 280 (327451)
06-29-2006 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by PurpleYouko
06-29-2006 10:02 AM


A verse out of water
Looks pretty specific to me.
Your doing the same that the Matthew 25-ists do. Taking a verse out of context and forming a doctrine around it. When people say you can make the Bible say anything at all they are referring to this kind of thing.
Here we have the same thing as I suggested is the dilemma contained in some folks analysis of Matthew 25.(which contains some interesting litte nuggests which causes HMS Works to list even more). Are we speaking cause or consequence. The link below makes the full argument of what James is dealing with in the passage: useless faith (even the demons believe in God) compared to saving faith.
If a person has genuine faith then good works will follow: consequence.
The saved person is a sheep, they will hear his voice - consequence
The saved person loves Jesus, they will obey his commands - consequence
Carm.org writes:
James is simply saying that if you ”say' you are a Christian, then there had better be some appropriate works manifested or your faith is false. This sentiment is echoed in 1 John 2:4 which says, "If you say you have come to know Him, yet you do not keep His commandments, then the truth is not in you and you are a liar."
Apparently, there were people who were saying they were Christians, but were not manifesting any of the fruit of Christianity. Can this faith justify? Can the dead ”faith' that someone has which produces no change in a person and no good works before men and God be a faith that justifies? Absolutely not. It is not merely enough to say you believe in Jesus. You must actually believe and trust in Him. If you actually do, then you will demonstrate that faith by a changed and godly life. If not, then your profession is of no more value than the same profession of demons: "We believe Jesus lived."
the complete article
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by PurpleYouko, posted 06-29-2006 10:02 AM PurpleYouko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by PurpleYouko, posted 06-29-2006 11:18 AM iano has replied
 Message 278 by ramoss, posted 06-29-2006 11:21 AM iano has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 276 of 280 (327460)
06-29-2006 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by lfen
06-29-2006 10:02 AM


Re: What did James mean by "not by faith alone."?
The post above gives the basic argument. The position is that on being saved a person received Gods holy spirit in dwelling. The purpose and activity of the Spirits indwellng is to cause us, the grafted-to-the-root(Jesus) branches to produce good fruit (works). The root is the source of the fruit - the branches are vehicles for bearing it.
Philipians 2 writes:
12Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure
A Christian is to work out (express out, exude out) what God is working into them. And if they are Christians then this will happen. It is a promise
Phillipians 1:6 writes:
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
These sheep may go astray, they may get entangled in the briars of sin. But the good shepherd will go find them and bring them back into the fold.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by lfen, posted 06-29-2006 10:02 AM lfen has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 279 of 280 (327506)
06-29-2006 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by PurpleYouko
06-29-2006 11:18 AM


Re: A verse out of water
oops wrong thread - deleted
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by PurpleYouko, posted 06-29-2006 11:18 AM PurpleYouko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by PurpleYouko, posted 06-29-2006 1:58 PM iano has not replied

  
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