Right to Life Ethical Considerations

There are even those who will continue with this. I simply pointed out the motivations and reasons. It got a few peoples dander up You apparently have Big Brother syndrome.

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I personally do not agree with them. I would not be involved with someone who ues them.

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That is consistent with your position.

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I do not believe I mentioned anything of the kind. You have twice now.
It appears to be your issue.

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But your position, that human life begins at conception, is the reason I posed the question.If most fertilized eggs, aka "the begining of human life", are flushed out of the body with menstruation, why shouldn't we try to save them?

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When the theoretical eggs you speak of are collected and raised into children then we'll talk more.

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You are sidestepping the issue.The eggs are not "theoretical". It is a fact that most fertilized eggs never implant and are flushed out during menstruation.Do you think it's a good idea to try to save that human life or not?

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Otherwise your talking theory. I say they did not implant becasue they were not viable.

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Possibly, but it is also possible that perfectly viable fertilized eggs just missed the wall of the uterus. Or, the woman was stressed or not eating well and her body prevented her from allowing a perfectly viable fertilized egg from implanting. Perhaps she has a physical problem in which perfectly viable fertilized eggs cannot ever implant.We do not know, anyway, if those fertilized eggs are viable or not until we collect them.Don't you want to give all of that human life, that some people would give their lives for, the benefit of the doubt?

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This is a sepparate issue you are welcome to discuss in another forum.

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No, it is the same issue.You keep going on about supporting the "ending of a life".If one supports the death penalty, one certainly does support the "ending of a life".If you are going to insist upon simplistic, black and white ways of thinking about these issues, then you should be prepared to be presented with the logical consequences of those ways of thinking.

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There are even those who will continue with this.

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Exactly.Does that mean that because you made the choice to end the pregnancy instead of possibly sacrifice the mother's life and/or bring a severely ill infant into the world, you threw away the "lump of flesh" into the "trash"?Or is it different for you? Your reasons for getting the abortion were "good enough", and you are fit to judge if anyone else's reasons are good enough?

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I simply pointed out the motivations and reasons. It got a few peoples dander up You apparently have Big Brother syndrome.

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No, you simplistically painted everyone with, according to your personal judgement, "inadequate" reasons to to end an unwanted pregnancy as irresponsible, immoral, and as not valuing human life in the least.None of this is true, except in your black and white, self righteous imagination.If a woman becomes pregnant as a result of a rape and obtains an abortion, do you consider it OK for her to throw that "lump of flesh" in the trash?Since nothing but complete abstinence from intercourse will prevent unwanted pregnancy 100%, do you suggest that all married couples should abstain from intercourse if they do not want the wife to become pregnant?

Granted, you never explicitly stated this, however, it certainly seemed implicit to your argument against contraception.
I fail to see why a higher power must be invoked regarding reasons for sex.With topics such as this i think it would be a good idea to be more precise with your phrasing. While pleasure, bonding and procreation could be regarded as reasons for having sex; i wouldn't put STDs and abortion, within that group. These are potential consequences of sex, not reasons for it. Even procreation could arguably be viewed as sitting on on overlap between reason and consequence. I can easily see why such a statement would be considered offensive, whether or not one views the foetus as a person or not. Such a statement is a generalisation based on your subjectiove assumptions of what constitutes maturity. Ahhh... thats a little clearer. Human life. I'm sure you agree then, that your view of what constitutes human life is not universal. Debate abounds on this issue.I feel tho', that your view is a little simplistic. A person has rights, but when these rights infringe on the rights of another, then things get messy.

bumpety-bump

If you're not going to talk to me, you don't get to talk about me.Misrepresenting my position after retreating from debate with me is dishonest and cowardly, and you typefy the immaturity inherent in the sexual views you espouse.

bump

I will not respond to you if you continue to flame.
The sexual issue is yours. Not mine. You are a very sexually fixated person.If you make it purely a womans issue that is your choice. I do not view it that way. I will continue to ignore any imature insinuation that that is the case. I simply will not tollerate the sexual fixations you spout. They do not apply and again are your issue.
Again my position is simple. To have sex knowing the statistics and whining about the consequences is simply an imature choice.If a person doesn't want an abortion then don't have sex if you are not ready. If a person knows they will regret the choice of abortion then they are setting themselves up for a fall. Countless people do. Poor me...I chose abortion...now I feel bad. No kidding. The large majority of abortion choices fall into my observation.

I agree. That is simply the way it appeared you represented it to me. An infringement as I understand would be a person making a decission that has a detrimental effect upon another.
In the circumstance we are discussing first of all it depends on whether or not individuals view the unborn as life or not. If one views it as simply a lump of flesh to be discarded there is no debate.
That is not the case in most instances. In this majority an unborn does not have a choice therefore there is no infingement. It is those who choose to set themselves up for a fall that infinge upon themselves and the unborn.
Again if one does not see life lost then there is no issue.
Go to clinics some time and read the affidavits. My understanding of what takes place the majority of the time is quite accurate. It is sad to see people hurt themeselves like that. The personal stakes are high for the little pleasure that is had.

You don't view abortion as an issue that predominantly affects women?Did nobody explain to you how pregnancy works, or what? Look, it's rather ridiculous of you to be lecturing sexual mores when you don't apparently understand where babies come from. So, abortion is ok as long as you don't feel bad afterwards? Funny, before, you were certain that the worst thing was when women had abortions lightly, without feeling bad about it.Which is it, exactly? Why is it that you describe your position as "simple", but it appears to change in every post?

No. Again, you need to refrain from such childish comments.
I have lectured no one. Sex is not the issue. It is your issue.
Children come from a choice. For those who think it is no big deal it will remain no big deal.
It's "ok"ness is irelevant to them. I personally am saddened by that view. However I will not convince someone of that mindset otherwise. I have however seen countless examples of regret. These are people who convinced themselves it was a good choice. An adult thing. For the majority of people it was not. Hence the regret. That is not a lecture that is simpe accurate observation.

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If a person doesn't want an abortion then don't have sex if you are not ready.

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So, is a married couple which doesn't want a pregnancy but engages in intercourse after one or both of them have been sterilized being irresponsible, since even sterilization does not confer 100% protection against unwanted pregnancy?

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If a person knows they will regret the choice of abortion then they are setting themselves up for a fall.

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I concur.

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Countless people do.

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Really? Got any statistics which shows this to be true?

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Poor me...I chose abortion...now I feel bad. No kidding. The large majority of abortion choices fall into my observation.

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Actually, multiple studies show that most women who get abortions tend to feel relief as the major emotion following the procedure.People who have emotional problems after an abortion are those who had strong religious or personal objections to abortion before they had the procedure done.Now, are you going to answer my questions regarding your position?

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I have lectured no one.

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Hahaha. That's funny that you think that.

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Children come from choice.

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Children come from sex which results in a pregnancy that is carried to term and birthed.Of course, a pregnancy can result from consentual sex or from rape.Why is it OK to throw away a "lump of flesh" in the trash in the latter case but not the former?

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However I will not convince someone of that mindset otherwise. I have however seen countless examples of regret. These are people who convinced themselves it was a good choice. An adult thing. For the majority of people it was not. Hence the regret. That is not a lecture that is simpe accurate observation.

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Again, your anecdotal, highly biased observations don't mean much.Do you have any statistics or studies which show that most people who get abortions regret them? The studies I have seen report that the majority of women feel relief after abortion and not regret,

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In the circumstance we are discussing first of all it depends on whether or not individuals view the unborn as life or not.

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No, that is inaccurate.It depends upon in individuals view the fetus as human or not.It is alive, just as your steak you had last night used to be alive.

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If one views it as simply a lump of flesh to be discarded there is no debate.

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So, why is it OK, according to you, for a woman who becomes pregnant as a result of a rape to "discard" this "lump of flesh"?

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That is not the case in most instances.

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Care to back up this assertion?

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In this majority an unborn does not have a choice therefore there is no infingement. It is those who choose to set themselves up for a fall that infinge upon themselves and the unborn.

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This doesn't really make much sense.Also, aren't the fertilized eggs which fail to implant and are flushed out of girl's and women's bodies during menstruation also "the unborn"?Why do you not advocate collecting them and trying to save them?

If an unborn child is of value then the outcome will be something you have to live with. It was a risk. If you do not recognise the life the point is mute. There is no responsibility involved. Nothing was at stake. I would wager I have read more personal affidavits then you will ever likely lay eyes on. That is no surprise. They percieve a burdon has been lifted. Very often one burdon is exchanged for another. Follow these same people as time goes by and see how many come to feel a ssense of loss and suffer depression. This burdon also tends to last a lifetime. You can't change it. What about the men? While this generalization is true you will find that as time passes people who were ok with abortion tend to change thier opinion as they age. I have met many. I have yet to meet a person who's opinion has shifted in the other direction as they age.