Has EvC changed your beliefs?

Well you are wrong. No it isn't - Item 10 reads - He's clearly arguing position and not person and therefore is entirely in keeping with both the spirit and the letter of the law. Edited by CK, : No reason given.Edited by CK, : No reason given.

This I puzzled over. Why would one set up a stereotype and then attack it?I guess he meant that some of these people are depraved and some are not--that he was referring to some but not all fundamentalists.Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

Yes that's how I read it and therefore not an attack on all.

Sorry Buz I disagree.I specificaly said that I have discovered the bankruptcy of THE POSITION not the people. I mentioned no one and no one person has caused me to form that opinion.Rule 10 of the forum states: Which has nothing to do with what I wrote. Everything was my words and my thoughts. I would have assumed that a responsible administrator would at least reference the correct rule they are attempting to enfore.{ABE: The rules from your link and the rules listed on the main page are numbered differently. I suggest this be fixed.}The rule I believe you are thinking of is rule 3: I do not feel I am breaking that rule because I am not arguing any person. I am arguing against the position of fundamentalism. It is my opinion that fundamentalism is negative in the ways I described in my post. People who are fundamentalist are free to consider my position of a theistic evolutionist a "compromise/sham/etc" I would not think that they are attacking me personally.If you want to suspend me I will appeal on those grounds.Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

Where are you reading those rules? I clicked on the "rules" link at the top and it's item 10. Do we have two versions floating aroung the forum?EDIT: Ah you've answered in your edit.Edited by CK, : No reason given.

I am not referring to any fundamentalists. I am referring to the position.The position forces people to abandon rational thought, sometimes even lie to maintain that position.The position and the type of thinking has related to other threads not about science or theology where a lot of discriminating and hateful positions were outlined.I do not distinguish between the the cherry picking of evidence and creation of fantasy in order to support fundamentalism with the same tactic used to propagate hatred and ignorance.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

Yea...the rules on the main page seem to be different.Making me look dumb of course. =)

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

But the word "stereotypical" suggests an exaggeration of the true position, as when someone says, "Oh, that's just a stereotype."

The first set of rules were written on a tablet which moshe broke and then a second set of commandments were written

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Its a fine line Buzz, but I have to disagree with your assessment. A "biblical fundamentalist" (this one at least) will likely see it as a post from a man without Christ, Christ-hating and blind to that which springs from Christ."If they hate you remember they hated me first"If such a one has accepted that the source of the 'hatred' does not eminate from the 'person' themselves but arises as a result of their falleness, then expressing a sense of being insulted strikes me as inconsistant with that very knowledge. Sure weren't we all Christ-haters at some point ourselves.Sure such things offend, sure some of the things said about Christ offend. God being held in total disrespect is offensive. But that is for us to absorb. For us to see it as the cost-of-doing-business.I supported Jazzns post because it speaks from the heart. And from the overflow of the heart a man speaks. Better to get it out where it can be seen than have it kept inside. To the benefit of all who know him not

Hi Iano. I agree that we are to take insults and not complain, and I for one have a way to go on that virtue, but in a public forum the reason to insist on proper form is for the sake of order and communication, and sometimes you have to defend your beliefs and even yourself against gross misrepresentation for the sake of the audience, or all kinds of strange ideas are only going to get perpetuated. It's a similar situation to why we insist on the Law although we are not bound by it and want to see people freed from it. It is the only sensible way the world of fallen humanity can be run.As for defending jazz for speaking from the heart, an awful lot of evil can be spoken from the heart, spoken "honestly." Any of us is capable of that kind of destructive "honesty." It can do great harm to others. It isn't just self-defensive to call it for the evil it is.

Now THAT is attacking the person and not the position. Very explicitly you are calling me "without Christ", "Christ-hating", and "blind".Even in the depths of my loathing for fundamentalism I would never presume to call anyone who considers themselves a fundamentalist not a real Christian. Where you get off calling me a Christ-hater when I very explicitly stated that I am still a believer is really quite typical. The only thing I have to judge about the reponse to my post from those who have been offended in some way is that pretty much I was right.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

I think this is an excellent reply to the fallout of my post. I think it is perfectly valid to call what I said "evil" if you really think so.You are doing only exactly what I did; giving your opinion about a position that you find reprehensible. Bravo!

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

Whether one is a Christian or not is an objective matter, determined by the standards of the historical church. Certainly there are different views on this; I judge from the Bible inerrantist view that is shared by most traditionalist theologians. I have to wonder whether you are or not, I am not quite sure. I have to wonder in the case of most liberals, though some I don't have as much of a problem with as others. I am 99% sure GDR is a saved man, for instance, although he has some liberal views I disagree with. I am at least 99% sure some others are not.Misrepresenting someone, imputing evil motives to them is something else altogether than judging whether someone meets the objective standards to be a Christian.

Start a thread and outline the criteria then and I'll met you there. Well then I guess it is not objective then. If it was then you would be sure. Also, you and iano using the same objective criteria would come to the same conclusion. So far, he thinks I am a Christ-hater and you are "not quite sure". If you are 99% sure that GDR is a Christian then that is not objective. If there was objective criteria then you could know 100%. As it stands you have demonstrated that after all it is nothing more than a subjective is/not. Prove me wrong, start a thread. I didn't mention anyone to misrepresent. I was talking about my impression of the fundamentalist position. Where I mentioned lying I can objectivly identify lying. I can point to Ron Wyatt and Kent Hovind lying. I can point the the Dover trial transcripts where a Christian fundamentalist creationist perjured himself in open court.Show me your objective standards for being a Christian in the appropriate thread. Until you do I am going to go ahead and consider calling someone a blind Christ-hater a direct attack on the person.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)