Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Has EvC changed your beliefs?
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 106 of 223 (328099)
07-01-2006 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by riVeRraT
06-28-2006 6:44 PM


Honour is an ideal I would love to reach, I think the only thing we can do is aspire to it.
Blimey, am I sounding like Iano here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by riVeRraT, posted 06-28-2006 6:44 PM riVeRraT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by iano, posted 07-01-2006 8:00 PM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 107 of 223 (328102)
07-01-2006 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by randman
06-28-2006 7:06 PM


Re: firmed up rejection of evo models
Randman writes:
and has broadened my understanding of the Theory of Evolution, exposing many more holes in it than I realized before.
You know? I think we need more people like you to poke the arse of current theory.
I don't hold with many of your positions but due to you I have been pushed to question mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by randman, posted 06-28-2006 7:06 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by randman, posted 07-01-2006 10:23 PM Larni has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 108 of 223 (328103)
07-01-2006 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Chiroptera
06-28-2006 7:29 PM


Re: The amount of evidence is amazing!
Chiroptera writes:
So, my participation on this board (as well as reading other peoples' posts -- I don't want to dis other people!) has really increased my understanding of the main topic.
This is my finding exactly; my base motives have not changed but the divergent views (on this site) have made me do the the work to justify my own.
Edited by Larni, : Finally get the quote right....god I'm a bit meery now.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Chiroptera, posted 06-28-2006 7:29 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 109 of 223 (328104)
07-01-2006 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Larni
07-01-2006 7:51 PM


Honour is an ideal I would love to reach, I think the only thing we can do is aspire to it. Blimey, am I sounding like Iano here?
I suppose you could draw a parallel between sinlessness and honour. But I don't aspire to it. I await it. Patiently/impatiently, depending on my sin quotient at any given moment

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Larni, posted 07-01-2006 7:51 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Larni, posted 07-01-2006 8:07 PM iano has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 110 of 223 (328111)
07-01-2006 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by iano
07-01-2006 8:00 PM


I apprehended that honour was an ideal. Never attained but always aimed for. As a kid I was caught up in 'honour'. I felt that (being secular) I needed a basis of 'Law' to guide my actions (at the time I did not realise 'I' had the capacity to define such 'Laws'.
I would say that the concept of 'Honour' (or infact any moral code} is invaluable to a youngster to give him/her a basis for social living.
But like the 'stabalizers' we have when we learn to ride a bike, we need them no more when we become an (emotional/moral ) adult.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by iano, posted 07-01-2006 8:00 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by iano, posted 07-01-2006 8:18 PM Larni has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 111 of 223 (328116)
07-01-2006 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by MangyTiger
06-28-2006 8:10 PM


You know, believing that one is right is also the thing that I have learnt fro EvC not do:
To be sure, I would argue that the secular side has the evidence and in the domain of a secular forum I would argue that the non-secluarist are at a massive dissadvantage, but you are bang on when you say that
There is nobody as dangerous as the person who isn't willing to admit they may be wrong.
I interet the evidence to conclude that there is no supernatuaral ruler.
But with new evidence I may revise my conclusions. I do this honestly (even though a creator would stick in my craw).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by MangyTiger, posted 06-28-2006 8:10 PM MangyTiger has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by iano, posted 07-01-2006 8:20 PM Larni has replied
 Message 119 by robinrohan, posted 07-02-2006 1:18 PM Larni has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 112 of 223 (328117)
07-01-2006 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Larni
07-01-2006 8:07 PM


Obedience is that which is sought after. To obey what he says. In so far as acting honourably arises out of that then acting honourably is sought after. But such honour will not always be seen as such by people with there own ideas as to what constitutes honour.
I would say that the concept of 'Honour' (or infact any moral code} is invaluable to a youngster to give him/her a basis for social living
Is this another way of saying that in order to live socially a kid must be thought how to live socially (which includes adapting the honour system that make such possible)? If the cloth fits...?
But like the 'stabalizers' we have when we learn to ride a bike, we need them no more when we become an (emotional/moral ) adult.
Because we move on to other things - like not living socially - but, for instance, joining the rat race where dog eats dog. The stabilizers would act to prevent this so they get dumped in order that we can so live.
The latter as subjective and 'valid' as the former I think

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Larni, posted 07-01-2006 8:07 PM Larni has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 113 of 223 (328119)
07-01-2006 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Larni
07-01-2006 8:18 PM


I do this honestly (even though a creator would stick in my craw).
Argument from ignorance (no offence)
He doesn't stick in the craw at all in fact. He's great. Like really tops.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Larni, posted 07-01-2006 8:18 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Larni, posted 07-01-2006 8:23 PM iano has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 114 of 223 (328122)
07-01-2006 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by iano
07-01-2006 8:20 PM


Fair comment.
I can't stand the idea of a boss god....this is what grinds my gears.....if you a have few minutes we could meet in chat.... it is 02:24 now..... if you are ther in a few mins I will debate with you there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by iano, posted 07-01-2006 8:20 PM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Phat, posted 07-02-2006 9:36 AM Larni has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 115 of 223 (328130)
07-01-2006 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Phat
06-28-2006 4:43 PM


Re: Questioning my sanity
I have noticed this transformation in your attitude. I found the transformation rather interesting, and it impresses me that you are able to verbalise it so nicely.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 06-28-2006 4:43 PM Phat has not replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 116 of 223 (328166)
07-01-2006 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Larni
07-01-2006 7:54 PM


Re: firmed up rejection of evo models
Larni, that was a kind comment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Larni, posted 07-01-2006 7:54 PM Larni has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 117 of 223 (328234)
07-02-2006 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Larni
07-01-2006 8:23 PM


Whose the Boss?
Larni writes:
I can't stand the idea of a boss god....this is what grinds my gears.....
Well what other types of God concepts do we have?
Do you want a non-interfering God?
Do you envision a co-op of sorts, where we all become members of a pantheon?
Maybe you just have bad experiences with controlling figures.
Would a nice Boss be acceptable?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Larni, posted 07-01-2006 8:23 PM Larni has not replied

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 223 (328242)
07-02-2006 10:22 AM


Changed Knowledge
I wouldn't say EvC has changed my beliefs, but it has changed the depth of my knowledge in a lot of things.
When I first started lurking here I really didn't grasp how strong the case for common descent really is. I thought it was mostly a question of fossil evidence (which I thought was convincing of course)... but I came to understand that there are lines of evidence derived from a wide array of different (and often independent) scientific disciplines, and put quite simply I went from thinking the evidence is pretty strong to thinking it's pretty much undeniable.
post is from Maxwells_demon
Edited by AdminJar, : add note about who posted

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 119 of 223 (328278)
07-02-2006 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Larni
07-01-2006 8:18 PM


You know, believing that one is right is also the thing that I have learnt fro EvC not do:
That seems strange to me. If I did not think I was right, I would change my mind and think some other way. Everyone thinks they are right.

"Your friends, if they can, may bury you with some distinction, and set up a monument, to let posterity see that your dust lies under such a stone; and when that is done, all is done. Your place is filled up by another, the world is just in the same state it was, you are blotted out of its sight, and as much forgotten by the world as if you had never belonged to it."--William Law

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Larni, posted 07-01-2006 8:18 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by lfen, posted 07-02-2006 2:26 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 123 by Larni, posted 07-05-2006 5:39 AM robinrohan has replied
 Message 142 by nator, posted 07-06-2006 10:11 AM robinrohan has replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4678 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 120 of 223 (328285)
07-02-2006 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by robinrohan
07-02-2006 1:18 PM


Everyone thinks they are right.
Don't you think there are different tenacities of belief both inter and intra personally? And aren't we often working on probabilities?
I think I irritated my elbow by resting it on the arm of my computer chair, but I also thinks it's possible it started by something else I don't remember like bumping it in my sleep. I'm pretty sure, certainly the chair arms irritate enough now, that I removed them.
So I think I'm right about what I say but I allow for possibilities as often enough in my life new data has come to light and I have changed my mind. So "right" is a value subject to change.
What amazes me is the tenacity with which fundamentalist hold to their interpretations of ambiguous, obscure, or coflicting Bible passages. Two literalist fundamentalist will disagree over whether Jesus is or isn't God for example with great tenacity as if they could know? When we don't even know if Jesus existed or what his life was like. I think that degree of rightness, and it seems fundamentally important to them is something I'm still struggling to understand and is a major motivation for the time I spend here.
The only idea I have is that fundamentalist have to be right because they for reasons I can't yet see have less faith in their place in the universe. I say that because it occurs to me that I do have a feeling that could be called faith that I am a product of the universe and belong and that, hmmm, hard to find words for it, just that in ways I don't understand I fit, and it occurs to me that this is a statement of some sort of fundamental faith. But I'm not sure if I'm RIGHT about this or not.
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by robinrohan, posted 07-02-2006 1:18 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by robinrohan, posted 07-05-2006 6:31 AM lfen has not replied
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 07-05-2006 8:31 PM lfen has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024