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Author Topic:   Atheism, a dangerous idea?
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 106 of 241 (328774)
07-04-2006 1:58 PM


I believe
NPR does an essay series in which they invide various people to expound upon the phrase "This I believe".
Penn Gilette's was entitled "I Believe There Is No God"
You may read and/or listen here.
Enjoy. It's good.
Edited by schrafinator, : fixed caps

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 07-04-2006 5:15 PM nator has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 107 of 241 (328809)
07-04-2006 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by kjsimons
07-04-2006 10:11 AM


Re: Need some clarification
Why would we have to have some god(s) hand us down a bunch of rules and threatening us to get us to behave? The answer is we don't!
That is not the answer, since you are part of an evolution of intelligence that brought about atheism, and it started with believing in gods. It is human nature to believe in something more than what is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by kjsimons, posted 07-04-2006 10:11 AM kjsimons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by kjsimons, posted 07-04-2006 4:12 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 108 of 241 (328810)
07-04-2006 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by riVeRraT
07-04-2006 4:07 PM


Re: Need some clarification
Fine, I agree that it is human nature to believe in god(s), I just don't see that as evidence for god(s) and definitely not the Judeo (sp?) Christian gods.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by riVeRraT, posted 07-04-2006 4:07 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 109 of 241 (328811)
07-04-2006 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by nator
07-04-2006 11:47 AM


but I find it difficult to believe that all of us could have such incredibly poor reading comprehension.
It's not all of us, only a select few, who's ideals seem to coinside with each other.
but when we kick the crap out of your arguments,
You are not "kicking that crap" out of anything other than your own misunderstanding.
You know for a fact, if I am wrong, I admit it, something I have never seen you do.
I think you are using the "I've been misunderstood" thing as a ruse to not have to address our rebuttals, since you have been known to be as slippery as a greased weasle under a sprinkler.
I am honored by that statement, really I am.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by nator, posted 07-04-2006 11:47 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by nator, posted 07-04-2006 9:38 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 110 of 241 (328812)
07-04-2006 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by kjsimons
07-04-2006 4:12 PM


Re: Need some clarification
I just don't see that as evidence for god(s) and definitely not the Judeo (sp?) Christian gods.
The desire to know God, is not from God?
At one time, I might have agreed with you, but now I see differently.
There is a lot of power in the fact that we as humans desire to know if there is a God or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by kjsimons, posted 07-04-2006 4:12 PM kjsimons has not replied

Replies to this message:
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GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 111 of 241 (328814)
07-04-2006 4:35 PM


Atheism has been a very good thing for Christianity
Just to interject another line of thought into this debate.
It seems to me that not long ago many people just attended church because people just attended church. It was the thing to do, and although there were many people who knew what they believed and why, there were also many who didn't give whatever faith they had a lot of consideration.
Atheism has forced Christians, and those who are considering Christianity, to determine just what it is they do believe. In western society people in general do not go to church because it is the socially correct thing to do. This I believe is very positive for the Christian church and to a lesser degree other faiths as well.
Atheism became a force at the time of the French revolution in response a corrupt political regime put in place by the church in France. Any time the church actually gains political power there will be those who become active in the church not because of their faith but because it is the path to power.
Atheism has, as a result, been largely responsible for seeing that the church does not gain political control which helps keep the church on track by keeping those seeking political power in government out.
As I said, I believe that Atheism had a cleansing affect on the Christian church and has been a positive for our society.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 07-04-2006 5:10 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 114 by riVeRraT, posted 07-04-2006 8:21 PM GDR has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 112 of 241 (328819)
07-04-2006 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by GDR
07-04-2006 4:35 PM


Re: Atheism has been a very good thing for Christianity
I agree. Too bad the church lost its clear mission for so long to keep unbelievers out by accepting only those whose profession of faith has credibility according to the scriptures.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 113 of 241 (328821)
07-04-2006 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by nator
07-04-2006 1:58 PM


Re: I believe
Robinrohan is right, atheism often leads to sentimental tripe in the place of Purpose.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by nator, posted 07-04-2006 1:58 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 118 by nator, posted 07-04-2006 9:45 PM Faith has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 114 of 241 (328848)
07-04-2006 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by GDR
07-04-2006 4:35 PM


Re: Atheism has been a very good thing for Christianity
As I said, I believe that Atheism had a cleansing affect on the Christian church and has been a positive for our society.
Amen.

This message is a reply to:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 115 of 241 (328854)
07-04-2006 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by riVeRraT
07-04-2006 4:16 PM


Re: Need some clarification
No, it is social conditioning with a bit of an idiosycracy of brain function.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by riVeRraT, posted 07-04-2006 4:16 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 116 of 241 (328855)
07-04-2006 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Faith
07-04-2006 5:15 PM


Re: I believe
And what is the "PURPOSE" that christianity gives?

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 Message 113 by Faith, posted 07-04-2006 5:15 PM Faith has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 117 of 241 (328856)
07-04-2006 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by riVeRraT
07-04-2006 4:14 PM


but I find it difficult to believe that all of us could have such incredibly poor reading comprehension.
quote:
It's not all of us, only a select few, who's ideals seem to coinside with each other.
Er, no.
Lots of members here don't even bother responding to you anymore rat.
but when we kick the crap out of your arguments,
quote:
You are not "kicking that crap" out of anything other than your own misunderstanding.
Like I said.
You write in simple declarative sentences.
There is not much to misinterpret or misunderstand.
If we get it wrong, it's because you were unclear. If we continue to get it wrong, it's because you continue to be unclear.
However, I don't think this is the case. I think you mean exactly and precisely what you write. I don't think we misunderstand you in the least.
But when we demolish your argument, you slide behind being "misunderstood".
quote:
You know for a fact, if I am wrong, I admit it, something I have never seen you do.
I do it all the time.
You do it far less than you think you do.
I think you are using the "I've been misunderstood" thing as a ruse to not have to address our rebuttals, since you have been known to be as slippery as a greased weasle under a sprinkler.
quote:
I am honored by that statement, really I am.
You shouldn't be.
I just called you a dishonest debater.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by riVeRraT, posted 07-04-2006 4:14 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by riVeRraT, posted 07-05-2006 10:22 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 118 of 241 (328858)
07-04-2006 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Faith
07-04-2006 5:15 PM


Re: I believe
quote:
Robinrohan is right, atheism often leads to sentimental tripe in the place of Purpose.
Penn Gilette seems intelligent, happy, compassionate, and loving.
If you think that this is "sentimental tripe", then I pity you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 07-04-2006 5:15 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by robinrohan, posted 07-05-2006 6:27 AM nator has replied

  
MUTTY6969
Member (Idle past 6190 days)
Posts: 65
From: ARIZONA
Joined: 05-20-2006


Message 119 of 241 (328862)
07-04-2006 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Larni
07-04-2006 10:27 AM


Re: Me too
Well at least he spared you....I got two very off the wall emails that made little sense.
I don’t think he realizes that if one view’s the bible as just another book and nothing more then all the quote posting in the world isn’t going to strengthen his argument.
Off topic. Do not respond.
Edited by AdminNWR, : off topic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Larni, posted 07-04-2006 10:27 AM Larni has not replied

  
kongstad
Member (Idle past 2869 days)
Posts: 175
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined: 02-24-2004


Message 120 of 241 (328872)
07-05-2006 3:33 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by mike the wiz
07-04-2006 11:01 AM


Re: An Argument and explanation
I have been told on many occasions that salvation is given solely by God, and by his grace alone.
Simply by believing in the risen Christ, this grace shall be given. we are all sinners, and can do nothing to earn our way into heaven.
You seem to disagree, but do you really mean to say that the many many christians who hold this belief are not christians?
If not, then your argument falls apart:
To expound on that conclusion, if an atheist can escape an earthly law then he can potentially do wrong, but a Christian cannot potentially do this if he believes in a just Christ, which by definition, he does, because even if he escapes earthly law he knows he can't escape God.
A christian would know that being just and not sinning would not help him achieve grace - so there is no reason for a christian - that is one who believes in the risen christ - to act morally. His grace is independent of his actions, and only dependant on his belief. that was I believe one of the points - if not the central point - of Martin Luthers epiphany, giving birth to the protestant doctrines, and the evangical sects of today.
So only christians who believe in grace through actions comply with your argument, but then again a lot of atheists believe that they should never do wrong, just like the catholic, so the catholics faith in a God is irrelevant to his morals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by mike the wiz, posted 07-04-2006 11:01 AM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by iano, posted 07-05-2006 6:24 AM kongstad has replied

  
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