Unethical practices in Evangelism. What is the value of the conversions?

Its not like anyone can convert a person to Christianity anyway. A person can share the gospel and point the way and if the pointee comes to Christ it is, at the end of the day, between themselves and him. He will have done the drawing however murky the seas on which the gospel floated to a personAnd if a person doesn't come to Christ then all the hooky televangelists and all the turn-off force feeding of Religion during childhood and all the molestation by priests will not be taken in evidence during Judgement. It is the rejection of the gospel - however it was delivered - that counts. The poor delivery may offend the intellect but it doesn't fool the heart.

Let me give you an example:

quote:

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John 3:16 For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son so that whosoever would believe in him would not die but would have eternal life

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If you don't believe and go to church and give money to the poor then you rotten soul will burn in the fires of hell and be tormented forever you foul sinner you. And I will sit on that day beside my God and laugh at your torture. Hahaaaaaaaaaa

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Here we have something of the gospel wrapped up in an inappropriate and patently sinful package. No matter. "The gospel is the power of God unto salvation" - not the packaging. If you have read it all, that little bit of the gospel resides within you and is at work. The rest can be used in your rejecting of the gospel if you so reject. God uses the gospel, you use whatever is is you use to reject it. Thats how this gig works.So. Whilst the packaging may vary in attractiveness/appropriateness, the gospel goes out. And God uses that. I say again that a person cannot convert another - the gospel does. A person cannot be conned into nor out of the kingdom so that of which you speak is moot.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Those teachings eminate straight from satans rectum - so I could hardly concur. I was talking with a neighbour who was going through a very rough time with depression. "I have no hope" she wailed at one point.So I talked to her about Christ. "be always ready to give an account for the hope that you have" I talked of how my life a few years back had that same nihilistic hopelessness and purposelessness woven up in it. And how that has all changed.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Yup (within boundaries: telling someone the truth within the context of a conversation which leads to things like hellfire etc is ok. Not using such things as a BOO! tactic) JW and Mormanism and Hinduism etc are not Christianity. I know you do not believe this but that is not my problem as such. The gospel is truth the rest is lies. I cannot help (nor would I want to help) that. Certainly if you accepted (for the sake of argument) that the gospel is true and the rest false you would have no problem with what I say. Yes. But they are not correct and I am (within boundaries)

Satans rectum is an active rectum. This is true.

The reason why people are so emotionally vunerable is that they have not Christ. Take my neighbour: her life is without hope. She wants a husband but at 40 sees that as some unscalable barrier. She wants kids but the door is ticking shut. She has a good career but worries about the young bucks snapping at her heels and knows that soon the vipers will have their way. She is not Irish and suffers from what it is to be a foreigner in a strange land. Her friendships are more aquaintances due to them being formed in the few years she has lived in Ireland. She looks ahead and sees no light at the end of the tunnel. She would agree with Robin that purposes she makes up: hobbies and holidays etc are pointless at addressing the truth behind her situation. She is alone in the world.I don't think it is manipulative to tell her about Christ and that aloneness would be the very first thing to evaporate were she to come to know him. And that the second thing would be an ever-enlarging lite appearing at the end of the tunnel."Blessed are the poor in spirit for they shall inherit the earth"Desparate people seem to be a good place to start. Gods purpose is to draw us to the end of ourselves so that we might have nowhere to turn to except him - he is not proud and doesn't mind that it is only in desparation that we turn to himBut if the message is a false one then it truly is horrible to prey on the desparate. With the qualification as to motive then yes, that is what I am saying

I am absolutely right in my central beliefs: God exists, salvation by faith alone etc. I don't see that evil necessarily follows. You forget that I have the Holy Spirit indwelling. He is a good guide if consulted. And a poor one if not.Not that a moral relativist can comment very much on things it must be said.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Yup. Straight from satans rectum. I don't say that the Buddhist doing so would consider himself as being manipulative. Nor the mormon or the JW. More accurately, he is being manipulated by his boss, Satan. Until we are sons of God we are ALL children of Satan and conform to daddies desire for us.Same thing when cosmetics companies set up youthful beauty as an false god and then whip ageing women into the distress which causes them to buy anti-ageing products. SR spewing out its manipulative bile.

I wouldn't go machine gunning mormons and the like. That's religious tolerance for you. But if I am right then they are wrong and it is not bigotted to say so. And I am right therefore it is not bigotry.That I cannot prove I am not a bigot doesn't not mean that I am one. No more than proving the world was round made it round.

One would have to argue that it is not possible to be right about something for me to entertain the notion (the no absolutes dilemma). I have however admitted elsewhere I could be wrong - that I could be a character in some alien kids playstation game. That possibility exists.Otherwise though: if God exists (and you would admit he can exist) then he can make a person sure (a relative trifle compared to what he has done) that what they speak of is truth/right. I don't claim I am right on all aspects of which I speak concerning God (although you might be hard pressed to discern what those areas are I'll admit ) but I am right about JW's and Mormons etc. False gospels. False hope. Blind alleys. Not all knowing. Knowing enough.

Hardly. I break Gods commandments all the time in thought word and deed. I would prefer not to and do take steps to avoid doing so. I don't fear God in any craven sense. Sorry. I should have said "prove to you". Me, I'm as sure as I need to be. Bloody eck, you are scraping the bottom of the argumentitive barrel today Brian. Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic Warning

Firstly I don't resent them. There is a JW who pops round to me from time to time and he is a dead nice bloke. I don't resent him at all. Nor one of my best friends who is a Buddhist and attempted to evangelize me when I was still in seek-mode. I do get a little pissed with the likes of Jar and Ringo and Brian for example purely because the out and out blasphemy they regularily propagate. I work on that with varying degrees of success and failure. By and large I don't resent anyoneSecondly: sure other god-reps might view me in the way that I view them - misguided or manipulative or whatever. It cannot be helped. Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic Warning

Christians are manipulated by Satan too. Very often they get special attention. Think of it in terms of spiritual warfare. If you were Satan, in which direction would you lob your mortars if not right into enemy headquarters?I can even watch him at work in me. I see myself being tempted and then giving in to that temptation. Its as plain as the nose on your face.Small point but the 'troubles' had buggar all to do with Religion in fact. That was just sheer hatred at work. Christianity is not about hating anyone Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic Warning

I fail to understand how someone could know God doesn't exist. But if that is what you know (within the constraints of possible knowing God does not exist = belief) then fine. One day we will all find out. Or not - depending on who's knowing is knowledgeAccording to the Bible you do know he exists but simply deny he does. In which case you knew you were blaspheming but denied that you were.Pleading not guilty doesn't make one not guilty. Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic Warning

Some of what I do is less than kosher - that is true. But in essence, when I speak of the what the gospel is and what God is like etc then that is based on direct experience of Him. My testimony is true.I can tell the difference between Satan operating in me and God operating in me in the same fashion as one can tell chalk from cheese. Satan is a master deceiver he wraps things up and twists things in such a way as to get through defences. But you always know you are choosing for him. His fruit is rotten and it ain't hard to taste rotten fruit when you've been around it for a while. I would have a problem with it and try avoid doing it. But one does slip at times. It wouldn't form the backbone of what I do however. It is not the main event Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic Warning