Has EvC changed your beliefs?

London sounds good (though the Guinness there is dire), but I think you are stretching the envelope of American Liberalism way beyond safe operating loads.Nah. Let us go Stateside. We will be able to see what is going to land on our shores 10 years from nowEdited by iano, : No reason given.

One does try.

Ne'er a truer word said.

Its a fine line Buzz, but I have to disagree with your assessment. A "biblical fundamentalist" (this one at least) will likely see it as a post from a man without Christ, Christ-hating and blind to that which springs from Christ."If they hate you remember they hated me first"If such a one has accepted that the source of the 'hatred' does not eminate from the 'person' themselves but arises as a result of their falleness, then expressing a sense of being insulted strikes me as inconsistant with that very knowledge. Sure weren't we all Christ-haters at some point ourselves.Sure such things offend, sure some of the things said about Christ offend. God being held in total disrespect is offensive. But that is for us to absorb. For us to see it as the cost-of-doing-business.I supported Jazzns post because it speaks from the heart. And from the overflow of the heart a man speaks. Better to get it out where it can be seen than have it kept inside. To the benefit of all who know him not

My opinion of you is that you are an intelligent enemy of God - as I once was (although somewhat less in the intelligence department than yourself)Your hatred for Lex? Whilst hatred for God has been expressed frequently enough, your hatred for Lex has not. I suspect this is the last I will be hearing of it too suggesting that you do not hate him in fact, for you do not believe he exists.Hatred in general is not something to be nurtured. Hatred of something that doesn't exist - well, its kind of illogical

I suppose you could draw a parallel between sinlessness and honour. But I don't aspire to it. I await it. Patiently/impatiently, depending on my sin quotient at any given moment

Obedience is that which is sought after. To obey what he says. In so far as acting honourably arises out of that then acting honourably is sought after. But such honour will not always be seen as such by people with there own ideas as to what constitutes honour. Is this another way of saying that in order to live socially a kid must be thought how to live socially (which includes adapting the honour system that make such possible)? If the cloth fits...? Because we move on to other things - like not living socially - but, for instance, joining the rat race where dog eats dog. The stabilizers would act to prevent this so they get dumped in order that we can so live.The latter as subjective and 'valid' as the former I think

Argument from ignorance (no offence)He doesn't stick in the craw at all in fact. He's great. Like really tops.

Not surprising. It means that the "by their fruits I shall save them/not damn them" god or the "lovey-dovey, fluffy-bearded" god must get ditched as a possibilities."Turn off" is an understatement I imagine, for it may then seem as if the only options available to you are that you hang around for God to save you or pack a asbestos suit.In those circumstances it is no surprise that one might be expected to be more turned on by the somewhat more self-controllable/happy ending options (Hollywood testifies to our love of the latter)None of the above are options that I've talked about however, hellfire and brimstone merchant that I am...Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Christianity is very upbeat. Talk of Hell and damnation and the wrath of God doesn't apply to a Christian. It does a person a disservice to talk of something which does not yet apply to them as if it does or could or would apply to them should they end in the position were they currently reside.God is love, wrath and justice. If an unsaved person talks about his fluffy love then I talk about his wrath and justice. If the talk about him being spiteful and (ugly) jealous then I talk about his love.He is all of these things so its not speaking out of both sides of my mouth. All three attributes need to be accounted for in one whole If its any comfort to you, the thief doesn't feel much joy either. The few quid will be soon gone but the theft won't beEdited by iano, : No reason given.

Like you never did anything bad *blush*{AbE} sounds like the recipe for a Relative Morality thread. Don't count on my joining such a road-to-nowhere beast however Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Preach the Gospel! Well almost... Finite starters inserted into an infinite meal. Everyone is sat at a table - Christian or no. Some tables are at the Ritz and others at McDonalds. Living in relationship with God and all that that entails - its not all work you know. There's time for play and plain old fun too. There is no "about getting into heaven" That'll come when it comes - sooner or later. Dead cert.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Doctor: "You have terminal intestinal cancer and are going to die a slow, painful death"
Patient "I don't like the sounds of that think I'll get a second opinion"Some time later....New Age herbalist "You don't have cancer you have an irritated bowl due to toxin build up - take these herbs and all will be wellPatient: "Good news indeed, I'm not going to die!" Judaism is a(nother) works based Religion I don't know them myself but there are plenty of shysters out there. A fool and his money are easily parted. Fair enough.

There ain't no such thing. Saved (peace with God)/unsaved (enemies of God). An enemy of God is not a disinterested observer. Not by a long shot.

I meant upbeat from the saved perspective. From any number of angles you care to mention: one of which is "Death? What then?". You'd be amazed at how much fear of death play a role in our lives until the point when there is no need to fear it any longer. That was what struck me very much in the early daysWith regard to the unsaved position, Christianity is not upbeat at all. Its worse as worse can be. Far worse than even nihilism can manage to muster.Worse than ALL vs NOTHINGAll Gods Love vs All Gods Wrath is about as extreme as extreme can be.Take a look at Creation and imagine being on the 'right' and 'wrong' side of that Might. The mind boggles at such a thought - irrespective of which 'side' you happen to inhabitMind bogglingEdited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.