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Author Topic:   Creationism/ID as Science
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 106 of 249 (328090)
07-01-2006 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by nwr
07-01-2006 5:13 PM


By the way, C.S. Lewis was a theistic evolutionist.
Yes, that is the impression I got from his writing as well.
Just goes to show that scientific beliefs are really irrelevant to faith in Christ. As I have said before, I was a theistic evolutionist myself at one time.
It is helpful to see that Genesis is true, but it is not a prerequisite to salvation. All that is needed is to see that we are sinners in need of a savior, and the belief that Jesus really was God's son. That He died for our sins, and rose on the third day.
If one can believe those things, by way of conviction by the Holy Spirit, then one can repent without need of the full understanding of where science and it's definition begins and ends...
As so often happens, you are way off topic.
In your opinion nwr... in your opinion...
Like many in this forum, you would have me talk only about water in spite of the earth and skies.
I will not comply, but also do my best to explain why.
With God's grace, you will come to see, in spite of my failings...
OFF TOPIC,Rob. Take it back to whether creationism and ID are science or not.
Edited by AdminFaith, : No reason given.

Any biters in the stream?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by nwr, posted 07-01-2006 5:13 PM nwr has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by ramoss, posted 07-01-2006 7:52 PM Rob has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 107 of 249 (328101)
07-01-2006 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Rob
07-01-2006 7:23 PM


Tell me.
If someone is trying to lead you to the 'truth'... and you find that the y continually lie, distort things, make asserstions you know are wrong, and refuse to listen to what you have to say, would you accept anything they say as 'truth'?
OFF TOPIC. PLEASE RETURN TO TOPIC.
Edited by AdminFaith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Rob, posted 07-01-2006 7:23 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Rob, posted 07-01-2006 8:56 PM ramoss has not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 108 of 249 (328135)
07-01-2006 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by ramoss
07-01-2006 7:52 PM


Tell me.
If someone is trying to lead you to the 'truth'... and you find that they continually lie, distort things, make assertions you know are wrong, and refuse to listen to what you have to say, would you accept anything they say as 'truth'?
Sounds a little dramatized to me Ramoss, but certainly the answer is no!
That is why the words of Jesus are so profound. I find no fault in Him and neither do you...
It is nice to see you moralizing with such vigor. You are closer to the truth than you realize by invoking such a true standard as honesty.
How about you Ramoss?
How convoluted and deep can a lie be?
How legalistic and evasive can a liar be?
How genuinely deceptive for the defense of his prize?
How can he, a mere man, turn reality on it's head, morphing truth into sophistry, and sophistry into truth?
How cunning, how breeding of death are his heart's intentions?
How does he crucify the truth without end or pause?
Do you know the human heart Ramoss?
Do you exclude yourself from the fray?
Are you above it all on you pedestal?
Are you a God?
Yes Ramoss. Hang me and twist my words. Cover my intentions. Bury me in the sands of confusion. Remove my good name. Distort character and turn conviction to accusation.
Perhaps if I were perfect, you would listen to my words...
No! You would nail me to a tree, and call me a blasphemer!
What is science Ramoss?
The observer is given tremendous power to define truth.
What he does with that power will show who he really is.
Will he keep it as his own or give it back to it's rightful owner?
As God said to Adam, where are you Ramoss?
What will you do with your power?
Certainly you would not crucify a mere mortal such as me to justify yourself?
No, not you...
OFF TOPIC. PLEASE RETURN TO TOPIC.
Edited by AdminFaith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by ramoss, posted 07-01-2006 7:52 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by MUTTY6969, posted 07-02-2006 3:00 AM Rob has not replied

  
MUTTY6969
Member (Idle past 6190 days)
Posts: 65
From: ARIZONA
Joined: 05-20-2006


Message 109 of 249 (328187)
07-02-2006 3:00 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Rob
07-01-2006 8:56 PM


Typical hand waving . never really answering the question, just random philosophical Nonsense.
Hard to see your logic when one does not give the same weight to the book you so often quote.
OFF TOPIC. PLEASE RETURN TO TOPIC.
Edited by AdminFaith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Rob, posted 07-01-2006 8:56 PM Rob has not replied

  
Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 110 of 249 (328599)
07-03-2006 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Rob
07-01-2006 1:48 PM


It is helpful to see that Genesis is true, but it is not a prerequisite to salvation. All that is needed is to see that we are sinners in need of a savior, and the belief that Jesus really was God's son. That He died for our sins, and rose on the third day.
And I am not religious! Religion is mans attempt to be good. If Christianity is not true... then I have no interest in it. But it is true because it is not mans attempt to be good, it is man's admission that he is not good, and a realization that 'good' = 'God'.
So considering these quotes from your recent previous posts, how does ID and creationism play into science? For as the last several of your posts have domonstated (95-109) there seems to be no actual discussion as to how ID is integral to science, there seems to be a more of a discussion in what scientists, whom you have never met, seem to believe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Rob, posted 07-01-2006 1:48 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Rob, posted 07-03-2006 8:44 PM Discreet Label has not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 111 of 249 (328683)
07-03-2006 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Discreet Label
07-03-2006 3:31 PM


Do you know how to diagram a sentance?
As the goat reverend said at the end of his message: http://EvC Forum: Induction and Science -->EvC Forum: Induction and Science
it seems harder for you to understand that people don't want to hear
If the mind is closed, then the light goes out...
Edited by AdminJar, : off topic pointless post hidden

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Discreet Label, posted 07-03-2006 3:31 PM Discreet Label has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by AdminNosy, posted 07-03-2006 9:00 PM Rob has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 112 of 249 (328687)
07-03-2006 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Rob
07-03-2006 8:44 PM


Suspended again
Rob you will have to pay attention to the topic. You were warned a number of times and suspended already.
This one is 6 hours.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Rob, posted 07-03-2006 8:44 PM Rob has not replied

  
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 113 of 249 (329771)
07-08-2006 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Rob
06-30-2006 12:43 AM


Turn this around
Everything that is said about Faith applies equally to Evolution. If creation is based on religion, evolution is also based on the religion of Atheism. In fact, it takes more faith to believe in Evolution than to believe in Creation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Rob, posted 06-30-2006 12:43 AM Rob has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by ReverendDG, posted 07-08-2006 2:23 AM inkorrekt has replied
 Message 132 by obvious Child, posted 08-27-2006 5:11 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 114 of 249 (329780)
07-08-2006 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by inkorrekt
07-08-2006 1:57 AM


Re: Turn this around
Everything that is said about Faith applies equally to Evolution. If creation is based on religion, evolution is also based on the religion of Atheism. In fact, it takes more faith to believe in Evolution than to believe in Creation.
wow, inkorrekt, not this old chessnut again!
sorry but evolution is based on objective evidence, sorry but there is no faith involved (unless you like to say everything takes faith in that case, sports works too)
oh yes by the way go tell all those scientists that thier belief in god is really atheism! i mean come on go read about science for once, they have a poll that says at least 40% of all scientists are thiests!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by inkorrekt, posted 07-08-2006 1:57 AM inkorrekt has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by inkorrekt, posted 07-22-2006 6:09 PM ReverendDG has not replied

  
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 115 of 249 (334331)
07-22-2006 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by ReverendDG
07-08-2006 2:23 AM


Re: Turn this around
The number of those Scientists who believe in Intelligent Design is growing. You may not like this. But, this is the fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by ReverendDG, posted 07-08-2006 2:23 AM ReverendDG has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by nator, posted 07-22-2006 8:29 PM inkorrekt has replied
 Message 117 by ramoss, posted 07-22-2006 9:01 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 116 of 249 (334397)
07-22-2006 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by inkorrekt
07-22-2006 6:09 PM


Re: Turn this around
quote:
The number of those Scientists who believe in Intelligent Design is growing. You may not like this. But, this is the fact.
Please demonstrate this fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by inkorrekt, posted 07-22-2006 6:09 PM inkorrekt has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by inkorrekt, posted 07-23-2006 7:02 PM nator has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 117 of 249 (334409)
07-22-2006 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by inkorrekt
07-22-2006 6:09 PM


Re: Turn this around
And the source of this information is?
Is that true with the fact that the Dover trial has shown, legally, that "Intelligent Design" is not science ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by inkorrekt, posted 07-22-2006 6:09 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 118 of 249 (334599)
07-23-2006 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by nator
07-22-2006 8:29 PM


Re: Turn this around
I will get some statistics for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by nator, posted 07-22-2006 8:29 PM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by MUTTY6969, posted 07-27-2006 6:27 AM inkorrekt has replied

  
MUTTY6969
Member (Idle past 6190 days)
Posts: 65
From: ARIZONA
Joined: 05-20-2006


Message 119 of 249 (335647)
07-27-2006 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by inkorrekt
07-23-2006 7:02 PM


Re: Turn this around
Got those statistics yet? I found one of many sites that show just the opposite. The so called ID movement seems to have solidified the science community and their basic tenants is that ID is not science. You can visit any number of these sites and they all say the same thing...but no where did I see a large or growing list of actual scientist who supports ID.

You wanna be, uhh, blunt about what has taken place, sometimes when you don't measure, you just shuffle kids through. Then you wake up at the high school level and find out that the illiter -- literacy level of our children are appalling.
-- It sure are, Mr. Bush, it sure are... not to mention adults, Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by inkorrekt, posted 07-23-2006 7:02 PM inkorrekt has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-27-2006 11:49 PM MUTTY6969 has not replied
 Message 127 by inkorrekt, posted 08-27-2006 2:48 AM MUTTY6969 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 120 of 249 (335883)
07-27-2006 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by MUTTY6969
07-27-2006 6:27 AM


Re: Turn this around

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by MUTTY6969, posted 07-27-2006 6:27 AM MUTTY6969 has not replied

  
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