Creationist theory

"No. science does not assume the existence of any supernatural events."The above applies only to the mechanistic science of Kepler, Newton, Laplace, and Darwin in which the existence of a God is considered unnecessary. Modern science - Relativity (Einstein), the Anthropic Principle (Dicke-Carter), Irreducible Complexity (Behe}, Aperiodicity and Specification (Thaxton), Dissipative Structures (Prigogine) and the Prescribed Evolutionary Hypothesis (Davison)require/imply an Intelligent Designer. The origin of life and its evolution can only be explained as the result of supernatural cause.The topic changes from science to theology when the scientist opines on the nature of the supernatural cause(s), the Designer(s). There are those like Einstein and Davison who don't believe in a personal God, that there is no free will or after-life, and like Behe and Thaxton who believe in the God of the Bible. The astronomer Hugh Ross dedicates the third part of his book " The Fingerprint of God" to how the new facts in physics can be gleaned from the Old Testament.However, there is a book whose science is not thousands of years old but current:"The original life plasm of an evolutionary world must contain the full potential for all future developmental variations and for all subsequent evolutionary changes and modifications. The provision for such far-reaching projects of life metamorphosis may require the appearance of many apparently useless forms of animal and vegetable life. Such by-products of planetary evolution, foreseen or unforeseen, appear upon the stage of action only to disappear, but in and through all this long process there runs the thread of the wise and intelligent formulations of the original designers of the planetary life plan and species scheme. The manifold by-products of biologic evolution are all essential to the final and full function of the higher intelligent forms of life, notwithstanding that great outward disharmony may prevail from time to time in the long upward struggle of the higher creatures to effect the mastery of the lower forms of life, many of which are sometimes so antagonistic to the peace and comfort of the evolving will creatures." (p.398)The above - now confirmed by the PEH and the Anthropic Principle - is in The URANTIA Book, the 2,097-page book comprised of 196 Papers written in the 1920s and mid-'30s by various divine personalities - Divine Counselor, Perfector of Wisdom, One High in Authority, Melchidezek, and Life Carriers to name a few - and published in book form in 1955. The passage quoted was written by a Life Carrier.About God:"The Universal Father is the God of all creation, the First Source and Center of all things and beings. First think of God as a creator, then as a controller, and lastly as an infinite upholder.The myriads of planetary systems were all made to be eventually inhabited by many different types of intelligent creatures, beings who could know God, receive the divine affection, and love him in return. The universe of universes is the work of God and the dwelling place of his diverse creatures. "God created the heavens and formed the earth; he established the universe and created this world not in vain; he formed it to be inhabited." (p. 21) Shared love bwtween Creator and creature: that's about as personal as one can get.The life, teachings, and religion of Jesus are narrated in Part IV.I have been studying the book regularly since 1978. The science is modern science and the religion based on a personal relationship with the Heavenly Father in doing his will by following the lead of his Spirit within us.Hard to believe but true. The book exists and can be found at Just a moment... Over half a million have been sold and it has been translated into several languages.It's not The Origin of Species or the Bible; it's The URANTIA Book.SandorEdited by Sandor Szabados, : I wanted to add the signature.

"what does the book of Urantia have to say about choices? How are decisions generally described in the book?""Material mind is the arena in which human personalities live, are self-conscious, make decisions, choose God or forsake him, eternalize or destroy themselves.""Material evolution has provided you a life machine, your body; the Father himself has endowed you with the purest spirit reality known in the universe, your Thought Adjuster. But into your hands, subject to your own decisions, has been given mind, and it is by mind that you live or die. It is within this mind and with this mind that you make those moral decisions which enable you to achieve Adjusterlikeness, and that is Godlikeness." (p. 1216)Free will is what distinguishes humans from other life forms. In fact, Urantia (the name of our planet) was declared inhabited by humans when two superior Primate-like creatures (one male and one female)made a key decision based on free will. This occurred about one million years ago."And now, after almost nine hundred generations of development, covering about twenty-one thousand years from the origin of the dawn mammals, the Primates 'suddenly' gave birth to two remarkable creatures, the first true human beings. They possessed perfect human thumbs, as had many of their ancestors, while they had just as perfect feet as the present-day human races. They were walkers and runners, not climbers; the grasping function of the big toe was absent, completely absent." (p. 707)The fact that, after about 530 million years since life began, the first human beings had evolved was acknowledged in this manner:"To the Life Carriers on Urantia--Greetings! We transmit assurance of great pleasure on Salvington, Edentia, and Jerusem in honor of the registration on the headquarters of Nebadon of the signal of the existence on Urantia of mind of will dignity. The purposeful decision of the twins to flee northward and segregate their offspring from their inferior ancestors has been noted. This is the first decision of mind--the human type of mind--on Urantia and automatically establishes the circuit of communication over which this initial message of acknowledgment is transmitting."SandorSandor

The URANTIA Papers are anything but materialistic. Part IV, over 750 pages, present a complete narrative of the life and teachings of Jesus. Was he a materialist? Here are some excerpts:"In religion, Jesus advocated and followed the method of experience, even as modern science pursues the technique of experiment. We find God through the leadings of spiritual insight, but we approach this insight of the soul through the love of the beautiful, the pursuit of truth, loyalty to duty, and the worship of divine goodness. But of all these values, love is the true guide to real insight."
(p. 2076)The leadings of spiritual insight are provided by the Thought Adjuster which is not a machine but a prepersonal fragment of God. We have free will; we follow its leadings or we don't, as we obey the laws of Nature or we don't. The choice is ours and so is the responsibility for the consequences."Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him; at least that was the earlier attitude. More recently, secularism has assumed a more militant attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage it onetime resisted. Twentieth-century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster." (p. 2081)"Secularism can never bring peace to mankind. Nothing can take the place of God in human society. But mark you well! do not be quick to surrender the beneficent gains of the secular revolt from ecclesiastical totalitarianism. Western civilization today enjoys many liberties and satisfactions as a result of the secular revolt. The great mistake of secularism was this: In revolting against the almost total control of life by religious authority, and after attaining the liberation from such ecclesiastical tyranny, the secularists went on to institute a revolt against God himself, sometimes tacitly and sometimes openly."To the secularistic revolt you owe the amazing creativity of American industrialism and the unprecedented material progress of Western civilization. And because the secularistic revolt went too far and lost sight of God and true religion, there also followed the unlooked-for harvest of world wars and international unsettledness."
(p. 2081)"Without God, without religion, scientific secularism can never co-ordinate its forces, harmonize its divergent and rivalrous interests, races, and nationalisms. This secularistic human society, notwithstanding its unparalleled materialistic achievement, is slowly disintegrating. The chief cohesive force resisting this disintegration of antagonism is nationalism. And nationalism is the chief barrier to world peace.The inherent weakness of secularism is that it discards ethics and religion for politics and power. You simply cannot establish the brotherhood of men while ignoring or denying the fatherhood of God.Secular social and political optimism is an illusion. Without God, neither freedom and liberty, nor property and wealth will lead to peace.The complete secularization of science, education, industry, and society can lead only to disaster. During the first third of the twentieth century Urantians killed more human beings than were killed during the whole of the Christian dispensation up to that time. And this is only the beginning of the dire harvest of materialism and secularism; still more terrible destruction is yet to come." (p. 2082)Consider how prophetic the above statements have been as the Papers were written between the 1920s and mid'30s.Sandor

There are different types of Thought Adjusters and the differences are based on experience and condition, and they are not inheritable."1. Virgin Adjusters, those serving on their initial assignment in the minds of evolutionary candidates for eternal survival.2. Advanced Adjusters, those that have served one or more seasons
with will creatures..."3. Supreme Adjusters, those that have served in the adventure of time on the evolutionary worlds, but whose human partners for some reason declined eternal survival, and those that have been subsequently assigned to other adventures in other mortals on other evolving worlds.4. Fused Adjusters--finaliters--those who have become one with the ascending creatures of the superuniverses, the eternity partners of the time ascenders of the Paradise Corps of the Finality.5. Personalized Adjusters, those who have served with the incarnated Paradise Sons..." (p. 1178-79)Jesus was an incarnated Paradise Son and had a Personalized Thought Adjuster.The type of Thought Adjuster indwelling individual mortals is based on the following:"1. Intellectual capacity. Is the mind normal? What is the intellectual potential, the intelligence capacity? Can the individual develop into a bona fide will creature? Will wisdom have an opportunity to function?2. Spiritual perception. The prospects of reverential development, the birth and growth of the religious nature. What is the potential of soul, the probable spiritual capacity of receptivity?3. Combined intellectual and spiritual powers. The degree to which these two endowments may possibly be associated, combined, so as to produce strength of human character and contribute to the certain evolution of an immortal soul of survival value." (p. 1186)Sandor

John,You have a copy of The URANTIA Book which I sent you. On several occasions, both privately and on Brainstorms, you acknowledged that the science I quoted is in accordance with the PEH. As a reminder here it is again:"The original life plasm of an evolutionary world must contain the full potential for all future developmental variations and for all subsequent evolutionary changes and modifications. The provision for such far-reaching projects of life metamorphosis may require the appearance of many apparently useless forms of animal and vegetable life. Such by-products of planetary evolution, foreseen or unforeseen, appear upon the stage of action only to disappear, but in and through all this long process there runs the thread of the wise and intelligent formulations of the original designers of the planetary life plan and species scheme." (p. 398)From the same source, here is evidence for the existence of God which I also quoted in our private conversations:"The Universal Father is the God of all creation, the First Source and Center of all things and beings. First think of God as a creator, then as a controller, and lastly as an infinite upholder.The myriads of planetary systems were all made to be eventually inhabited by many different types of intelligent creatures, beings who could know God, receive the divine affection, and love him in return. The universe of universes is the work of God and the dwelling place of his diverse creatures." (p. 21)Modern science validates the science in The URANTIA Book, the Fifth Epochal Revelation to mankind. In order for you to disprove the evidence in the book for the existence of God you first have to disprove its scientific content, which includes the PEH.You have the book. Study it and disprove its science.Sandor

John,I have not said a single word about your not thanking me. Of course you did but this has nothing to do with the subject at hand.You say that you are only a scientist yet you make theological statements. Just because you, or Einstein, do not see evidence of a living God does not mean there isn't one. Wasn't in fact Einstein who said that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence? On several occasions you also stated that a God must have existed at one time because, of course, the PEH implies a Prescriber, a God. However, you state that you don't see evidence of one now.Do you see evidence that a Prescriber who, as you acknowledged, once existed no longer exists, that he is dead? If so, would you present such evidence?My evidence is in the science - physics, cosmology, geology, paleontology, evolutionary biology, etc. - of the URANTIA Papers which were written between the 1920's and mid-'30s, science which has been validated by discoveries made after this time, and that includes yours. The God who created the realities discovered by scientists, including your PEH, is also there. It stands to reason that if the science is correct, so must be everything else.The burden of proof in on you to prove it wrong.You are entitled to your own personal opinions and beliefs but, as you well know, personal beliefs have no scientific validity whatsoever.Sandor

Claptrap. Just as your published works exist and you challenge people on every possible forum to prove you wrong, The URANTIA Book with its scientific content validated by modern science also exists. You have a copy and I challenge you to prove it wrong.Post your findings on EvC when you have done it.The End.

Bunk.You are insecure and maybe even scared because you now have a 2,097-page tome that proves totally wrong your personal, subjective, unsubstantiated, and unproven life-long belief that neither a personal God nor free-will or life after death exist.Prove The URANTIA Book wrong, then reply.Edited by Sandor Szabados, : Capitalized the word Urantia as in the title of the book.

You are now getting personal and calling me names, as you have done with others on all the other forums I have visited, including this one."55,000,000 years ago the evolutionary march was marked by the 'sudden' appearance of the first of the 'true birds', a small pigeonlike creature which was the ancestor of all bird life. This was the third type of flying creature to appear on earth, and it sprang directly from the reptilian group, not from the contemporary flying dinosaurs nor from the earlier types of toothed land birds. And so this becomes known as the 'age of birds' as well as the declining age of reptiles." (p. 691)The above was written before Schindewolf."The original life plasm of an evolutionary world must contain the full potential for all future developmental variations and for all subsequent evolutionary changes and modifications. The provision for such far-reaching projects of life metamorphosis may require the appearance of many apparently useless forms of animal and vegetable life. Such by-products of planetary evolution, foreseen or unforeseen, appear upon the stage of action only to disappear, but in and through all this long process there runs the thread of the wise and intelligent formulations of the original designers of the planetary life plan and species scheme." (p. 398)The above was written much before your PEH.Judge The URANTIA Book, as any book should be, by its content, not the authors. Darwin, Dawkins, and Mayr are well-known scientists but their science leaves a lot to be desired. Bateson, Berg, Broom, Goldschmidt, Grasse, Schindewolf and you are much less known, but the science is correct and that is what matters. Right?I again challenge you disprove the scientific content of The URANTIA Book and will doggedly continue to do so, no matter what you call me. Though "sticks and stones may break bones, your words will never hurt me" because I have completely lost respect for you as a person, and I couldn't care less if my opinion matters to you or not.Disprove the scientific content of The URANTIA Book, then reply. The rest is irrelevant bunk.

"450,000,000 years ago the transition from vegetable to animal life occurred. This metamorphosis took place in the shallow waters of the sheltered tropic bays and lagoons of the extensive shore lines of the separating continents. And this development, all of which was inherent in the original life patterns, came about gradually. There were many transitional stages between the early primitive vegetable forms of life and the later well-defined animal organisms. Even today the transition slime molds persist, and they can hardly be classified either as plants or as animals.Although the evolution of vegetable life can be traced into animal life, and though there have been found graduated series of plants and animals which progressively lead up from the most simple to the most complex and advanced organisms, you will not be able to find such connecting links between the great divisions of the animal kingdom nor between the highest of the prehuman animal types and the dawn men of the human races. These so-called "missing links" will forever remain missing, for the simple reason that they never existed.From era to era radically new species of animal life arise. They do not evolve as the result of the gradual accumulation of small variations; they appear as full-fledged and new orders of life, and they appear 'suddenly.'The 'sudden' appearance of new species and diversified orders of living organisms is wholly biologic, strictly natural. There is nothing supernatural connected with these mutations.At the proper degree of saltiness in the oceans animal life evolved, and it was comparatively simple to allow the briny waters to circulate through the animal bodies of marine life. But when the oceans were contracted and the percentage of salt was greatly increased, these same animals evolved the ability to reduce the saltiness of their body fluids just as those organisms which learned to live in fresh water acquired the ability to maintain the proper degree of sodium chloride in their body fluids by ingenious techniques of salt conservation.Study of the rock-embraced fossils of marine life reveals the early adjustment struggles of these primitive organisms. Plants and animals never cease to make these adjustment experiments. Ever the environment is changing, and always are living organisms striving to accommodate themselves to these never-ending fluctuations."
(p. 669-70)Stop the immature drivel. Be the excellent scientist you are and disprove the scientific content of The URANTIA Book. I dare you."A religion without science has no foundation; a science without religion has no direction."

"We reckon the history of Urantia as beginning about one billion years ago and extending through five major eras:1. The prelife era extends over the initial four hundred and fifty million years, from about the time the planet attained its present size to the time of life establishment. Your students have designated this period as the 'Archeozoic.'2. The life-dawn era extends over the next one hundred and fifty million years. This epoch intervenes between the preceding prelife or cataclysmic age and the following period of more highly developed marine life. This era is known to your researchers as the 'Proterozoic.'3. The marine-life era covers the next two hundred and fifty million years and is best known to you as the 'Paleozoic.'4. The early land-life era extends over the next one hundred million years and is known as the 'Mesozoic.'5. The mammalian era occupies the last fifty million years. This recent-times era is known as the 'Cenozoic.'The marine-life era thus covers about one quarter of your planetary history. It may be subdivided into six long periods, each characterized by certain well-defined developments in both the geologic realms and the biologic domains.As this era begins, the sea bottoms, the extensive continental shelves, and the numerous shallow near-shore basins are covered with prolific vegetation. The more simple and primitive forms of animal life have already developed from preceding vegetable organisms, and the early animal organisms have gradually made their way along the extensive coast lines of the various land masses until the many inland seas are teeming with primitive marine life. Since so few of these early organisms had shells, not many have been preserved as fossils. Nevertheless the stage is set for the opening chapters of that great "stone book" of the life-record preservation which was so methodically laid down during the succeeding ages." (p. 672)"400,000,000 years ago marine life, both vegetable and animal, is fairly well distributed over the whole world. The world climate grows slightly warmer and becomes more equable. There is a general inundation of the seashores of the various continents, particularly of North and South America. New oceans appear, and the older bodies of water are greatly enlarged.Vegetation now for the first time crawls out upon the land and soon makes considerable progress in adaptation to a nonmarine habitat.'Suddenly' and without gradation ancestry the first multicellular animals make their appearance. The trilobites have evolved, and for ages they dominate the seas. From the standpoint of marine life this is the trilobite age." (p. 673)Would Einstein or Huxley be able to disprove this? Can you?"Religion without science has no foundation; science without religion has no direction."

You got it. I am a fanatic of truth; you, of philosophical drivel."The marine life was much alike the world over and consisted of the seaweeds, one-celled organisms, simple sponges, trilobites, and other crustaceans--shrimps, crabs, and lobsters. Three thousand varieties of brachiopods appeared at the close of this period, only two hundred of which have survived. These animals represent a variety of early life which has come down to the present time practically unchanged.But the trilobites were the dominant living creatures. They were sexed animals and existed in many forms; being poor swimmers, they sluggishly floated in the water or crawled along the sea bottoms, curling up in self-protection when attacked by their later appearing enemies. They grew in length from two inches to one foot and developed into four distinct groups: carnivorous, herbivorous, omnivorous, and "mud eaters." The ability of the latter group largely to subsist on inorganic matter--being the last multicelled animal that could--explains their great increase and long survival.This was the biogeologic picture of Urantia at the end of that long period of the world's history, embracing fifty million years, designated by your geologists as the 'Cambrian'."(p. 674)From the Phantom, the man who does not exist: your worst nightmare."Religion without science has no foundation, science without religion has no direction."

And you are a broken record, your brain stuck in neutral, repeating the same quotes on this and other forums over and over and over, ad nauseam, your immature behavior a disgrace to your academic achievements.Here is more to get your brain, and those of other readers, thinking which is the main reason I am doing this, BTW, because I know that you will never change your mind:"310,000,000 years ago the land masses of the world were again well up excepting the southern parts of North America. Mexico emerged, thus creating the Gulf Sea, which has ever since maintained its identity.The life of this period continues to evolve. The world is once again quiet and relatively peaceful; the climate remains mild and equable; the land plants are migrating farther and farther from the seashores. The life patterns are well developed, although few plant fossils of these times are to be found.This was the great age of individual animal organismal evolution, though many of the basic changes, such as the transition from plant to animal, had previously occurred. The marine fauna developed to the point where every type of life below the vertebrate scale was represented in the fossils of those rocks which were laid down during these times. But all of these animals were marine organisms. No land animals had yet appeared except a few types of worms
which burrowed along the seashores, nor had the land plants yet overspread the continents; there was still too much carbon dioxide in the air to permit of the existence of air breathers. Primarily, all animals except certain of the more primitive ones are directly or indirectly dependent on plant life for their existence."
(p. 675-76)Ten pages down, 2,087 to go from the Urantian Phantom, the man who does not exist: your worst nightmare."Religion without science has no foundation; science without religion has no direction."Edited by Sandor Szabados, : Correct spelling error: Panthom to Phantom

You are hard to believe, but obviously you exist."The trilobites were still prominent. These little animals existed in tens of thousands of patterns and were the predecessors of modern crustaceans. Some of the trilobites had from twenty-five to four thousand tiny eyelets; others had aborted eyes. As this period closed, the trilobites shared domination of the seas with several other forms of invertebrate life. But they utterly perished during the beginning of the next period.Lime-secreting algae were widespread. There existed thousands of species of the early ancestors of the corals. Sea worms were abundant, and there were many varieties of jellyfish which have since become extinct. Corals and the later types of sponges evolved. The cephalopods were well developed, and they have survived as the modern pearly nautilus, octopus, cuttlefish, and squid.There were many varieties of shell animals, but their shells were not then so much needed for defensive purposes as in subsequent ages. The gastropods were present in the waters of the ancient seas, and they included single-shelled drills, periwinkles, and snails. The bivalve gastropods have come on down through the intervening millions of years much as they then existed and embrace the muscles, clams, oysters, and scallops. The valve-shelled organisms also evolved, and these brachiopods lived in those ancient waters much as they exist today; they even had hinged, notched, and other sorts of protective arrangements of their valves.So ends the evolutionary story of the second great period of marine life, which is known to your geologists as the 'Ordovician'." (p.676)"Religion without science has no foundation; science without religion has no direction."The Urantian PhantomP.S. Thank you for the PEH. One more scientific discovery that validates The URANTIA Book, the Fifth Epochal Revelation to mankind.Edited by Sandor Szabados, : Correct spelling - Rveletion to Revelation

Your wish is my command."THE SECOND GREAT FLOOD STAGE: THE CORAL PERIOD--THE BRACHIOPOD AGE"300,000,000 years ago another great period of land submergence began. The southward and northward encroachment of the ancient Silurian seas made ready to engulf most of Europe and North America. The land was not elevated far above the sea so that not much deposition occurred about the shore lines. The seas teemed with lime-shelled life, and the falling of these shells to the sea bottom gradually built up very thick layers of limestone. This is the first widespread limestone deposit, and it covers practically all of Europe and North America but only appears at the earth's surface in a few places. The thickness of this ancient rock layer averages about one thousand feet, but many of these deposits have since been greatly deformed by tilting, upheavals, and faulting, and many have been changed to quartz, shale, and marble.No fire rocks or lava are found in the stone layers of this period except those of the great volcanoes of southern Europe and eastern Maine and the lava flows of Quebec. Volcanic action was largely past. This was the height of great water deposition; there was little or no mountain building.290,000,000 years ago the sea had largely withdrawn from the continents, and the bottoms of the surrounding oceans were sinking. The land masses were little changed until they were again submerged. The early mountain movements of all the continents were beginning, and the greatest of these crustal upheavals were the Himalayas of Asia and the great Caledonian Mountains, extending from Ireland through Scotland and on to Spitzbergen.It is in the deposits of this age that much of the gas, oil, zinc, and lead are found, the gas and oil being derived from the enormous collections of vegetable and animal matter carried down at the time of the previous land submergence, while the mineral deposits represent the sedimentation of sluggish bodies of water. Many of the rock salt deposits belong to this period.The trilobites rapidly declined, and the center of the stage was occupied by the larger mollusks, or cephalopods. These animals grew to be fifteen feet long and one foot in diameter and became masters of the seas. This species of animal appeared 'suddenly' and assumed dominance of sea life." (p. 677-78}"Religion without science has no foundation; science without religion has no direction."