The boasts of atheists (Atheist self-deception)

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However, it is necessary that we make a distinction. The reason the atheists boast is to show that they can be happy and can be moral without God. Very understandable.

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I've seen these types of responses in various threads and they don't appear to be unsolicited boasts, they appear to be testimony to refute assertions or comments that have been made concerning morality or atheists.BTW, when you provide the quotes, please also provide the question or statement that precipitated the response.

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Except in a practical sense, it will not do to speak of such things as happiness and morality. If one is an atheist one should never speak this way. One should say, "We are products of a mindless universe, accidentally produced. We will live out our lives, and have some pleasures, and grow old, and die."

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Why? People, regardless of their belief system or lack thereof, know that they live out their lives, have some good times and bad times, and if they are fortunate they grow old and die. So what is your point?I seriously doubt that the response you dictate would be a correct response to the questions or statements that precipitated the "boasts" that you find annoying.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

The author used himself as an example to disprove this premise: Just because you don't know anyone with a moral character worth imitating (exemplary), doesn't mean that those people don't exist.His statement also doesn't mean that he's never had to weather life's storms. He's not saying that everything always works out perfectly for him.So why do you feel the need to regurgitate because someone claims:

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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I mean, really. This is supposed to show how wonderful this person is and how this person doesn't need religion.

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IMO, you're reading more into the statement than is there. In this case, the person is correcting what she perceives to be a misconception. Because of the nature of this forum, we don't really "know" people. We can't visually see how they behave or conduct their life. We have one very limited view of their persona.Boasting or bragging carries the idea of flaunting or "puffing up".You still haven't explained why you believe these people are "flaunting" their happiness or goodness given the statements they were responding to?One reads like testimony and the other seems to be correcting an misconception.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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I sincerely think he already is a Christian who is playing a wee game.

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I have that impression also.

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Oh, ok. I have lived many years in this world, and I have never known anyone with an exemplary moral character. They all had flaws, many of them serious.

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But maybe I ran with the wrong crowd.

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Maybe you did, but exemplary doesn't mean flawless. Everyone has flaws.As I said in Message 17, just because you don't know anyone with a moral character worth imitating (exemplary), doesn't mean that those people don't exist.As I said in Message 41, boasting or bragging carries the idea of flaunting or "puffing up".The examples you gave weren't flaunting anything. They were responding to the discussion.Please show how their posts exuded pride or that they were flaunting their virtues.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

No it isn't self praise. Otherwise every time we go on a job interview we are boasting. There is more to boasting. BoastingYour examples were in response to a discussion and weren't done to flaunt, IMO.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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I don't think you would find believers claiming exemplary moral character. Quite the opposite in fact.

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I've found that attitude more prevalent among those who have come to Christianity later in life or after turmoil.Churches I've been in teach for us to be an example. My father never was a proponent of the "Do as I say, but not as I do" school of thought.

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Believers claim (or rather accept) that morally they are quite bankrupt.

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I'm not sure why you would think a believer would accept that they are morally bankrupt after they have accepted Christ, when with the acceptance of Christ into your life God writes the "laws" on your heart. Churches I've belonged to taught that God writes his morals on our hearts and the Holy Spirit convicts us of that which we need to change in our lives to bring us in line with those morals. We shed the old self and God helps us to build a new self.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

So it sounds like atheists boast how good they are and Christians boast how bad they are. Interesting.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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Saying that one has an exemplary moral character is an exaggeration.

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The author gave you an example of his moral character. You don't feel that what he listed is worth emulating?

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As I said before, constant robust awe or enthusiasm for the wonder of life is an exaggeration.

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The author said nothing about constant awe. Besides, unless you actually have met this person and know them personally, you really don't know that they are exaggerating. Again, just because you don't know anyone like that or feel it is impossible, doesn't mean that it is.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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Did you read his description carefully?

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Yes I did read his description. But you didn't answer my question.

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I am the best, most loyal friend you will ever have if you are so lucky as to earn my regard

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I want to vomit.

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What? You don't believe people can be loyal friends either?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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This is the part that really got to me. Such boasting.

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That's nothing more than respect. Don't get hungup on the fancy wording.Are you loyal to everyone you meet or only those you respect and consider close friends?It would be difficult for me to be close friends with someone I don't respect.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz