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Author Topic:   The boasts of atheists (Atheist self-deception)
Phat
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Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 12 of 304 (330091)
07-09-2006 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by robinrohan
07-09-2006 12:44 AM


Nihilism is depressing
Im not sure which annoys me more:
1) Fundamentalists spouting off religious rhetoric which is never provable and which basically says to me that I am less than they are unless I follow their trail.
2) Smug militant atheists who love to use the logical fallacies and who attempt to show me how illogical my beliefs are..suggesting that were I as smart as they, I would be content.
OR.....
3) Robin, the nihilist, who has a depressing quote at the end of his message and who seems to suggest that nothing in life matters beyond the grave so get drunk and write plays and entertain people for awhile. (but I can't get too mad at you Robin, for you have entertained me before in the past. Its just that your outlook is so damn depressing!) I refuse to believe any of it! It much better to believe that God exists, loves me, and will mercifully guide me to a better destiny.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 15 of 304 (330108)
07-09-2006 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by robinrohan
07-09-2006 3:00 PM


Throwin up....signs of the times
RR writes:
Doesn't it make you want to puke?
Now, Robin! You started this thread so you need to play with the other children nicely!
RR writes:
It will be, in a hundred years, as if you never existed. You are of no more significance than a roach crawling across the floor.
Two quotes:
1)
NIV writes:
Matt 24:35-Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.(...) John 14:18-19-- Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
Optimistic, if we behave and live to our best!
or...
enotes.com writes:
Macbeth is on the castle walls, under siege by his enemies. A cry is heard from within the castle, and Macbeth learns that his wife has killed herself. There was a time when such a message would have chilled his heart, but at this point he is surprisingly stoic and accepting, resigned to the barren futility of life. He goes on to give one of the most famous Shakespearean speeches that begins with "Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow," and continues "creeps in this petty pace from day to day to the last syllable of recorded time, and all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more." Macbeth has found his own "way to dusty death" through greed and superstition, and will soon pay the ultimate price.~~--From Macbeth (V, v, 19)
It matters what you place your hopes in, Robin.
add by edit:
An atheist may place their hopes in their own morality...and be a bit boastful about it in some cases...because NOW is all that is real.
We suely can forgive them for being human, can't we?
Edited by Phat, : add by edit

“There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way” --C.S.Lewis

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 Message 13 by robinrohan, posted 07-09-2006 3:00 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 64 of 304 (330322)
07-10-2006 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by robinrohan
07-09-2006 12:44 AM


Another analysis of the mind of Robin
Often, at EvC, we fire off potshots at one another based on a quote and on our emotional reactions to that quote.
Waking up early this morning, I browsed the threads with a sort of detached observer status while watching the news on the television....until I came to this thread. I read a few of the challenging attacks aimed at you, including my own, and then I decided to look up the author of your signiture quote. Is this the guy?
If so, he is anything but a nihilist, which is not what I expected. He seemed to be a man who questioned his beliefs and who ultimately influenced many Christians, as the Wesley brothers, among others, attest.
So....
Robin of Rohan writes:
These boasts--I have run across a lot of them and can provide quotes if you like--just will not do.
Phat writes:
In other words, it is not enough to convince you, right?
However, it is necessary that we make a distinction. The reason the atheists boast is to show that they can be happy and can be moral without God. Very understandable.
But we have to realize what is being said here. Yes, one can be happy and one can be moral, but one will also go to one's long home.
Phat writes:
In other words, we will spend a lot more time underground than we spend walking about on top of it, right?
It will be, in a hundred years, as if you never existed. You are of no more significance than a roach crawling across the floor.
Phat writes:
seemingly, after taking your quotes in context, I believe that you, like Law, are not expressing your belief in Nihilism so much as questioning---challenging, even...whether any other beliefs make sense in light of the reality of our temporal lives.
So one must understand that fact thoroughly before one speaks of "happiness" and "exemplary moral character" and the "wonder of life."
Phat writes:
Yes...our lives are serious business, seeing especially how they are so brief in the larger scheme of things.
Except in a practical sense, it will not do to speak of such things as happiness and morality. If one is an atheist one should never speak this way. One should say, "We are products of a mindless universe, accidentally produced. We will live out our lives, and have some pleasures, and grow old, and die."
Phat writes:
Keyword: IF. Personally, I think that you are a passionate and emotional person who, though given to bouts of depression, are still alive enough to create posts such as this one to see if anyones candle is still lit and why our candles burn at all. You are searching for God, Robin. May you find Him or may He find you! I have new respect as to why you placed yourself on the Nihilists list. It is because you are honest and don't take beliefs lightly!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by robinrohan, posted 07-09-2006 12:44 AM robinrohan has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 146 of 304 (330561)
07-10-2006 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by robinrohan
07-10-2006 5:01 PM


Christians tend to boast as well
The Apostle Paul was a good example. He was good with words, though, and had a valid justification for such boasting.
NIV writes:
1 Cor 1:26-31--Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God-that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."
Paul was by nature a boastful man. Even after he, as Saul, got knocked off his high horse, he continued to boast as a Christian.
Im certainly not attacking Paul, for I have behaved much the same way in my Christian walk. I used to love to encourage others to find Christ and to come to church! Many of my co-horts would declare that God certainly would put another jewell in MY crown for leading someone to Christ.
Again, from Paul....
NIV writes:
Phil 1:3-6--I thank my God every time I remember you. In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
These days, I am in awe of what Christ has done through me. I am also humbled over what I have done to myself....getting in debt, behaving rather badly at times, and looking like a fool.
Were it not Christ proclaimed in me, people would just see me as another in a long line of deluded, circular reasoning, doubleminded fools. Because of the proclamation, however, I am judged as well as my beliefs.
This is where many atheists boast. They are quite intelligent as a group, just as Christians are quite ignorant as a group.
This brings the focus of the debate---and the reasoning--up to a philosophical level.
1) Does it really matter what we do on a daily basis, or what we say?
I ask us to consider the infamous butterfly effect. If an insects fluttering wings can influence world weather patterns if but to a minute degree, how much more so can a misplaced boast, snide comment, or inappropriate response minutely influence the hundreds of lurkers who read our posts on a daily basis?
On a personal note, I never boast about being a Christian anymore, because it has not elevated me above anyone else in this world.
My relationship with Him has given me comfort and I am greatful for it.
The point of this post, Robin, is to tell you that I appreciate your honesty and don't encourage you to profess anything new. On the other hand, if you feel led to reach out and trust an invisible God (to you) I can say with a bit of a boast (but mostly contritely) that He is not invisible in my heart, nor are you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by robinrohan, posted 07-10-2006 5:01 PM robinrohan has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 149 of 304 (330565)
07-10-2006 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by docpotato
07-10-2006 5:29 PM


Re: Really? It is?
docpotato writes:
The question is if you feel yourself on equal footing as them or above them. From what you said above and in the past, I'd wager equal footing. but it's off topic and not important.
Its equal footing, Doc. I dont have anything that you don't have in the way of favor. As pertains to my belief, He found me...I never found Him.
In terms of intelligence, you probably have a more disciplined mode of thinking than I do. If you were to logically attempt to persuade me to change my beliefs, I may consider that you felt yourself on a better intellectual foundation than I am. I would not hold it against you, however, as we all are unique individuals with unique beliefs and opinions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by docpotato, posted 07-10-2006 5:29 PM docpotato has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 293 of 304 (331081)
07-12-2006 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 290 by robinrohan
07-12-2006 8:27 AM


In summation
Robin, seeing as how this post is coming to a close, do you have any final statement concerning a proper ending of it? Has the concept of Boasting in general been clarified?
Do we all agree that boasting is considered in context to a situation and that not just atheists but believers of all persuasions tend to boast as well?
Is boasting an undeniable product of the human condition?
Have any of us learned anything in this thread?
Do you have any closing statements or fodder, perhaps, for a new thread?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by robinrohan, posted 07-12-2006 8:27 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
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