The Ark - materials, construction and seaworthness

There is a guy in Western Maryland supposedly constructing an ark to the original dimensions. He is cheating, though, it has a steel superstructure and a concrete foundation - he doesn't intend to ever try to float it.Page not found | God's Ark of SafetyAnyway, the dimensions he is using are 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high.So far he has the footings poured and about a third of the steel superstructure erected, according to his website. He has been at it since 1976, maybe he thinks he is going to live as long as Noah. According to his website several "miracles" have already occured. Here are the ones listed on the website - many more are claimed.

What about when it quits raining? Still have 325 days to go. It is either lower buckets into the sea or pumps. Plus there is the water leaking into the bilge of a 450 foot long wooden boat. I definitely think some kind of pumps are needed.

What you really are saying is that if we aren't going to allow "deus ex machina" solutions and inventions more than four millenia before their time then no discussion is possible. Well welcome to the world of reality where we can't rely on miracles and "back to the future" solutions. Come up with supposed solutions that have a basis in two millenia B.C. reality and maybe we can discuss it.

Fine. Show us some archeological evidence from the 4th millenium BC that pumps were being made and used. Surely old Noah and his sons made use of his marvelous water pumps after they disembarked from the Ark? Otherwise it is just more "Goddidit" nonsense.

Well Noah MIGHT have had a shaduf, which is essentially a lever with a bucket on the end. There is no evidence of anything more sophisticated than that at the time. No evidence of water wheels, for example, that I know of, anyway. If Ian has evidence of water wheels and reciprocating pumps in the 4th millenium B.C. let him produce it. Enough with could have, would have, might have been possible history.

It is not a red herring unless you are willing to evoke "Goddidit". Either the technology was available or it wasn't. We don't discount the fact that Noah could have come up with some innovations - but then there should be some archeological evidence that sometime in the 4th millenium B.C. in the Middle East some breakthroughs in water pumping technology occured that would have allowed pumping the bilge of a 450 foot long wooden ship, for example. This technology would have been highly useful post Flood so we would have expected Noah and his decendents to have used that technology and there would be archeological evidence of it. But no, all we have is the shaduf and no evidence of any advancement beyond that. If you have some other evidence, now is the time to produce it.It is the equivalent of saying that William the Conquerer crossed the English Channel in 1066 using airplanes.

So "simple" that the first evidence we have of use of an "Archimedes screw" in Mesopotamia is about 600 B.C., some 3000 years later, if you believe the YEC timeline. And you are arguing both sides - on the one hand you would have Noah and Sons to be technological geniuses before and during the Flood and on the other hand you would have them adopting a Luddite mentality after the Flood. And of course it is all so much speculation. The history of the world is that once a new technology is discovered and adopted, it is disseminated, improved upon, and disseminated some more. But in the case of Noah, he hits upon a pumping technology that is at least 3000 years ahead of his time and he and his progeny promptly abandon it, even though it would have been extremely useful for transporting water for people, livestock, and to irrigate crops. Yes, that is a reasonable proposition.

You might have a point if we were not talking about something so fundamental as a way of moving water. Water is even more important than food in human societies. It boggles the mind that an invention as useful as Archimedes Screw or its equivalent wouldn't have been utilized by the generations following Noah. First of all, you are conveniently adding to scripture to buttress your position. My Bible says that God conceived AND designed the Ark and told Noah how to proceed. There is no mention of consulting engineers. Damn shabby of Noah to let them drown, by the way. Besides if he were such a klutz you would think he would have taken at least one with him to fix things. Secondly, you have been maintaining all along that these are simple solutions and that is why Noah would have thought of them. Now you are suddenly saying they are so complex that they couldn't have been copied by Noah's clan. Which is it?

Denial is a wonderful thing, is it not? A 450 foot wooden boat packed to the decks with animals, food and supplies in water rough enough to run your manure "pumps" is going to leak before it breaks apart completely. I will inform my dairy farmer friends. They will be extremely pleased to hear this little known "fact". Have you even ever been on a farm and seen a liquid manure disposal system in operation? First of all it is not MY train - it is YOUR train. It was dead before you started. And there is no need to speculate about why the technology was not propagated when you have not established that there was any technology to propogate. Therein lies the speculation.And it has not escaped my notice that you completely blew off my question of why Noah suddenly became a klutz and needs consulting engineers when before you were claiming that the pump technology was so simple that anyone with "intelligence and simple materials" could figure it out. If Noah is suddenly such a dummy how did he manage the Ark project?

A ocean going 450 foot wooden boat is not high tech???? OK. Denial is a wonderful thing, isn't it?A lever is basic yes, getting it to pump liquid manure, no.
A wheel is actually just a lever operating around a fulcrum as well. But I hardly think that it is "basic" if that means simple.

ship would pitch AND roll. Particularly if it was built anything along the lines of how the illustrated bibles picture it. This guy in Frostburg Maryland is supposedly going to build full sized replica according to Bible specs and he has a drawing here....
Page not found | God's Ark of SafetyThat sucker is going to roll. No stabilizers either. So in addition the shit piling up, there is puke everwhere.

Right. first of all, it will never get built. The steel superstructure is about as far as they are going to get, imo.
But I was think if it accurately depicts the Bible design in Genesis, if it were to be launched, it would roll and pitch.