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Author Topic:   boasts of Athiests II
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 1 of 300 (331262)
07-12-2006 6:36 PM


Wow, that other thread went to 300 posts while I was away for 4 days.
Thought Robin should hear my reply, thogh, so here you go.
quote:
But you do tend to brag a bit. Why?
Pretending that I am not good at certain things, or that I do not possess certain attributes, when I have a reasonable amount of evidence from appropriate sources that I really am good at them or do have those attributes, would be silly. It would be a very typically female thing to do; to put myself down and not accept or believe that I am good at some things or that I do posess certain attributes, but I reject that kind of behavior.
In no waydo I believe myself perfect, or even particularly gifted or amazing in any way. I am most assuredly my own biggest critic. However, I have spent half of my life believing I was deficient in just about every way. I hope you will allow me the indulgence of stating confidently that I am, at least, sufficient at/in many things, proficient at/in a lot, and excellent at/in a few.
Please also consider that these kinds of effusive comments that you have noticed are almost always forced out of me.
They are usually preceeded by some theist smugly informing me how someone (like me) who doesn't believe in God cannot possibly lead a happy, full, joyful, moral, good life.
I have no choice but to explain to them how wrong they are in as accurate and precice language as I can muster.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by robinrohan, posted 07-12-2006 8:06 PM nator has replied
 Message 33 by Discreet Label, posted 07-13-2006 3:23 AM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 3 of 300 (331290)
07-12-2006 8:07 PM


and another thing...
Robin, I read the entire other thread, and I need to correct you.
Ian had just told me that the things I write here at EvC didn't have the "light of life" in them, which he found strange, apparently, as he said that he perceived this "light" in the photo of myself that is posted here.
For goodness sake, how can you blame me and find fault, or "bad manners" in my reply when Ian basically said to me, "Gee, your picture makes it look like you are vivacious and lively and really exude happiness. I would have expected someone who looked more miserable considering what you write here."?
I am afraid that you misrepresented me.
Never once did I say or imply that I constantly admired the wonder of life, or constantly lived life robustly.
I usually do see, hear, smell, taste, or otherwise experience something, at least once a day, that I appreciate profoundly. It gives me pause and makes me appreciate being alive, and there, in that moment, able to experience it.
I have thoughts like that all the time.
For example, years ago I was refilling a pan of olives at this shop I worked at, and they were the most beautiful range of shades of purples and tans, all shiny with olive oil and brine, and deliciously fragrant. I looked at them for a moment, thinking the above, and commented as such to the young woman next to me. She gave me a weird look and said nothing, clearly nonplussed.
After that, I have been very careful to whom I speak of such things. Many people do not understand, but I have found many who do.
Now, that doesn't mean I don't have taste. I can't stand Anne Geddes, for example. That's overly cute and contrived and saccherine.
Anyway, this is a little bit of what I mean when I talk about finding joy in life and living life robustly.
I really don't care if you approve, or if you are annoyed by my defending myself against Believers' smug incredulity with the truth of my experience.
It's not my job to make sure I don't annoy a jaded, mopey cynic.

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by arachnophilia, posted 07-12-2006 8:19 PM nator has replied
 Message 8 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 8:20 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 4 of 300 (331292)
07-12-2006 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by robinrohan
07-12-2006 8:06 PM


quote:
Do you constantly have robust enthusiasm for the wonder of life?
No.
Isn't is good, then, that I never said that I did?
Of course, if you'd like to quote where I used the word constant...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by robinrohan, posted 07-12-2006 8:06 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by robinrohan, posted 07-12-2006 8:12 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 6 of 300 (331296)
07-12-2006 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by robinrohan
07-12-2006 8:12 PM


quote:
Just sometimes? How often?
When my life is going well, many times a day. During an amazing meal, for example, which includes great company, in a beautiful setting...almost constantly.
When I am not quite so happy, I am not so open to appreciating life and I spend more time inside my own head instead of interacting fully with the rest of the world. As a result, I miss and ignore that which and whom I otherwise would notice in that way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by robinrohan, posted 07-12-2006 8:12 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by robinrohan, posted 07-13-2006 8:47 AM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 9 of 300 (331300)
07-12-2006 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by arachnophilia
07-12-2006 8:19 PM


Re: in my professional photographic opinion
LOL!!!!!
I despise Anne Geddes' work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by arachnophilia, posted 07-12-2006 8:19 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by arachnophilia, posted 07-12-2006 8:25 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 11 of 300 (331303)
07-12-2006 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by iano
07-12-2006 8:20 PM


Re: and another thing...
quote:
Had I known you were 38 instead of 28 I would have posted the .wav file which would have recorded the sound of my jaw hitting the floor.
You are a terrible flirt, Ian. Nerdy in all the right ways.
Remember, I was 36 in that photo, not 38.
quote:
I see folk having a 'good time' all the time. But usually if you look for any length of time into their eyes the uncertainty will reveal itself. It might take a while, it might take the bad times to come over them.
...or it might be that people, no matter what their belief or non-belief, go through good and bad times?
quote:
Perhaps it was just a highlight in your life captured by the photo
Actually, that photo was taken in the middle of the very most stressful, difficult times of my life. However, I was also in New Orleans, at a wedding, and in the company of some of my oldest and dearest friends. It was a lovely restorative, that trip. It gave me strength to persevere in what I had to endure.
Edited by schrafinator, : fixed quote box

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 8:20 PM iano has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 13 of 300 (331305)
07-12-2006 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by arachnophilia
07-12-2006 8:25 PM


Re: in my professional photographic opinion
despise Anne Geddes' work.
quote:
dear god, don't we all.
No.
My sister sends me Anne Geddes greeting cards all the time.
NOT as a joke.
I don't get on with her very well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by arachnophilia, posted 07-12-2006 8:25 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by arachnophilia, posted 07-12-2006 9:03 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 14 of 300 (331306)
07-12-2006 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Discreet Label
07-12-2006 8:31 PM


Re: and another thing...
quote:
Why do you think you see unhappiness present in their eyes? Could it not be you projecting your own unhappiness upon them?
...or maybe thay are just uneasy because this guy they just met keeps staring at them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 8:31 PM Discreet Label has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 8:34 PM nator has not replied
 Message 18 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 8:50 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 19 of 300 (331316)
07-12-2006 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by iano
07-12-2006 8:50 PM


Re: and another thing...
quote:
People aren't keen on meeting anothers eyes. Even less keen to hold it for any length of time. Don't believe me? Try holding anothers eyes tomorrow
Remember, Ian, I work in retail service. I read people pretty well and it's a big part of my job to repond to them and communicate in a way that makes them comfortable.
I look into people's eyes all the time, although more with women than with men, and more with people I know than with those I don't.
Men in American culture often find it either a come on or a defiant act if a woman looks into their eyes for any length of time. It is associated with dominance; "He stared the other guy down until he looked away in defeat."
It's a very primal thing.
It is also cultural. In some American Indian cultures it is considered disrespectful to look another directly in the eye when speaking to them.
But at any rate, It does bug me, for example, when people wear their sunglasses in the shop and then try to have a conversation with me. I feel very disconnected from the person if I cannot look them in the eye when I speak to them.
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 8:50 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 9:05 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 25 of 300 (331334)
07-12-2006 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by iano
07-12-2006 9:05 PM


Re: and another thing...
quote:
Same here - but there are all kinds of ways to eliminate threat. One doesn't stare manically. You could look straight into their eyes for x seconds then look away demurely, flutter the eyelashes once or twice, look hesitantly back...away.. and then your good for another minute. Putty in your hands Shraf.
Well, yeah.
I am a VERY good salesperson.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 9:05 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 9:45 PM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 31 of 300 (331349)
07-12-2006 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by arachnophilia
07-12-2006 9:03 PM


Re: in my professional photographic opinion
quote:
maybe she's send them to you because you don't get on with her very well?
I wish this were the case.
No, she likes Geddes.
She also stenciled her kitchen and bathroom, and gives me "country cute" Christmas decorations like this every year at the holidays:
I've given most of them away, they are so completely NOT my taste.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by arachnophilia, posted 07-12-2006 9:03 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by arachnophilia, posted 07-12-2006 10:37 PM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 64 of 300 (331554)
07-13-2006 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by robinrohan
07-13-2006 8:47 AM


quote:
1. One of the qualities of the human mind is HABITUATION. We grow used to things. We grow tired of things. We after awhile are unmoved or much less moved by that which moved us before.
I would agree with this in general.
quote:
2. Most of life is spent neither joyfully nor sadly but in an in-between state that might be characterized as moderate satisfaction or moderate dissatisfaction.
Sure, although personally I would say that most of my childhood and early adulthood was spent in moderate dissatisfacion, but since I got over the child abuse I consider myself to feel "very satisfied" with my life much of the time.
quote:
3. There is a "hunger of imagination" in us that outraces reality. Reality cannot possibly fulfill that which our imagination craves.
I really don't understand how my imagination can crave anything.
quote:
This quality is more prevalent when one is young, but it never goes away entirely. The result is an occasional feeling of "vacuity."(the phrases in quotation marks come from an 18th century writer).
You know, I have always been a very practical, "take things at face value" kind of person.
If I'm bored, I figure that it's my own fault, because I could live a hundred or a thousant lifetimes and still not experience everything I could. I have yet to become bored with blue skies, for example, but maybe that's because I have always lived in relatively cloudy places.
Maybe I'm just easy to please and astonish.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by robinrohan, posted 07-13-2006 8:47 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by robinrohan, posted 07-13-2006 4:04 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 66 of 300 (331556)
07-13-2006 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Discreet Label
07-13-2006 11:06 AM


quote:
For example cooking, a basic human necessity, is as stimulating as watching paint dry.
It has always been incredibly engaging and interesting to me!
I remember the year that I was given a book that taught me how to put up preserves and pickles. I thought it was the most facinating thing in the world; all of this chemistry and physics. The absolute, very most coolest thing was the fact that I was supposed to put some of this food on a room temperature shelf for, in many instances, months before eating it. Utterly amazing to me.
quote:
Yet can I not shape my perception of the cooking experience into something of joy? I mean could I not percieve the prepartion of a salad to be an excerise of wonder in how such simple beginnings of individual vegies can make the beauty of a simple salad? How perfectly lettuce, carrots, tomotoes, red onions etc, fit so beautifully to create a marvelous salad?
Easily done, easily done. How can one not think this way?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Discreet Label, posted 07-13-2006 11:06 AM Discreet Label has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Discreet Label, posted 07-13-2006 4:18 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 67 of 300 (331557)
07-13-2006 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Dan Carroll
07-13-2006 12:00 PM


quote:
My Personal Anecdotes are Objective Facts About the Human Condition (Flirt With Schraf)
ROTFLMAO!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-13-2006 12:00 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 70 of 300 (331563)
07-13-2006 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by robinrohan
07-13-2006 4:04 PM


quote:
Have you ever done something that didn't meet up to your expectations beforehand? You were looking forward to it, but it didn't quite meet up to what you thought it would be?
It happened with Cocowheats when I was a kid, so sure.
But as an adult, I tend to not have particular expectations. I often have general ones, but they do not get very specific.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by robinrohan, posted 07-13-2006 4:04 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Discreet Label, posted 07-13-2006 4:23 PM nator has not replied
 Message 74 by robinrohan, posted 07-13-2006 4:25 PM nator has replied

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