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Author Topic:   boasts of Athiests II
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 16 of 300 (331308)
07-12-2006 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Discreet Label
07-12-2006 8:31 PM


Re: and another thing...
Hardly. Although one must know it to recognise it - that is true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 8:31 PM Discreet Label has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 8:41 PM iano has replied

Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 17 of 300 (331309)
07-12-2006 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by iano
07-12-2006 8:36 PM


Re: and another thing...
True you must recognize it to be able to see it, but at the same time why search for their unhappiness in such a manner or even at all?
Are you so discontent that another can experience their happiness without reserve? Are you so discontent with your own life that you must try and find the unhappiness present in another person's life?
What causes you to search out another person's unhappiness?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 8:36 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 9:14 PM Discreet Label has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 18 of 300 (331312)
07-12-2006 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by nator
07-12-2006 8:32 PM


Re: and another thing...
...or maybe thay are just uneasy because this guy they just met keeps staring at them.
Often they have to look. I'm their boss or their trying to sell me something.
Its amazing how much folk avoid looking you in the eyes. Long before I became a Christian I was sent on some high-flyer management course (it was my bosses idea: steady Robin). Straight after lunch we all settle back into our seats. The Teech waltzs into the room and sticks out his hand to the first person in the bottom row of the semi-circle shaped auditorium. The 'student' somewhat confusedly sticks out his hand and it is shook. Onto the next - we're all (supposedly) high flyers so the next guys is less confused. Sticks his hand out - only to have Teech pull his hand back before contact, stick his thumbs in his ears, wiggle his fingers and poke his tongue out at the student.
Round the bottom row he goes. Seated there myself, I got the wiggling fingers treatment. At the end he announces that the reason some got the wiggly finger treatment was that they didn't meet his eyes as they went to shake hands. 70% 'failure' rate it was that day.
People aren't keen on meeting anothers eyes. Even less keen to hold it for any length of time. Don't believe me? Try holding anothers eyes tomorrow

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by nator, posted 07-12-2006 8:32 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by nator, posted 07-12-2006 8:58 PM iano has replied
 Message 20 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 9:02 PM iano has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 19 of 300 (331316)
07-12-2006 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by iano
07-12-2006 8:50 PM


Re: and another thing...
quote:
People aren't keen on meeting anothers eyes. Even less keen to hold it for any length of time. Don't believe me? Try holding anothers eyes tomorrow
Remember, Ian, I work in retail service. I read people pretty well and it's a big part of my job to repond to them and communicate in a way that makes them comfortable.
I look into people's eyes all the time, although more with women than with men, and more with people I know than with those I don't.
Men in American culture often find it either a come on or a defiant act if a woman looks into their eyes for any length of time. It is associated with dominance; "He stared the other guy down until he looked away in defeat."
It's a very primal thing.
It is also cultural. In some American Indian cultures it is considered disrespectful to look another directly in the eye when speaking to them.
But at any rate, It does bug me, for example, when people wear their sunglasses in the shop and then try to have a conversation with me. I feel very disconnected from the person if I cannot look them in the eye when I speak to them.
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 8:50 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 9:05 PM nator has replied

Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 20 of 300 (331319)
07-12-2006 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by iano
07-12-2006 8:50 PM


Re: and another thing...
What does holding another's eyes have to do anything with their happiness level?
Meeting another person's eyes is a culturally dependent thing. In some cultures like Japan to meet a superior eyes is a symbol of arrogance because you are challenging their place, in western cultures its a signature of confidence level in the meeting. In some cultures its an act of agression to have eye contact and it will definetly lower your standing. In others to meet their eyes significes a level of equality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 8:50 PM iano has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 21 of 300 (331320)
07-12-2006 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by nator
07-12-2006 8:31 PM


Re: in my professional photographic opinion
My sister sends me Anne Geddes greeting cards all the time.
NOT as a joke.
I don't get on with her very well.
i would imagine not!
maybe she's send them to you because you don't get on with her very well?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by nator, posted 07-12-2006 8:31 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by nator, posted 07-12-2006 10:27 PM arachnophilia has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 22 of 300 (331321)
07-12-2006 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by nator
07-12-2006 8:58 PM


Re: and another thing...
Remember, Ian, I work in retail service. I read people pretty well and it's a big part of my job to repond to them and communicate in a way that makes them comfortable.
There is a difference between looking into a persons eyes as another human being and looking into their eyes professionally. Think making love in the same context (no insult intended for I do what I do professionally to)
All the best sales reps give the firm handshake and the look into the eyes whilst they do so - they've been on the same course as me no doubt. After that they are the same as every one else. Restless
Men in American culture often find it either a come on or a defiant act if a woman looks into their eyes for any length of time. It is associated with dominance; "He stared the other guy down until he looked away in defeat."
Same here - but there are all kinds of ways to eliminate threat. One doesn't stare manically. You could look straight into their eyes for x seconds then look away demurely, flutter the eyelashes once or twice, look hesitantly back...away.. and then your good for another minute. Putty in your hands Shraf.
Well it works on me at any rate. You got any MPEGs of yourself?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by nator, posted 07-12-2006 8:58 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by nator, posted 07-12-2006 9:43 PM iano has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 23 of 300 (331327)
07-12-2006 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Discreet Label
07-12-2006 8:41 PM


Re: and another thing...
True you must recognize it to be able to see it, but at the same time why search for their unhappiness in such a manner or even at all?
Because then people tell you about their unhappiness and worries and concerns. Their horrible bosses, their failing sales figures, their..unhappiness
Its good to talk if your unhappy. At least I have found so. And if they are anything like me then talking about their unhappiness is not the first thing they would consider if the original intent was to report on the days production figures or selling me a piece of equipment.
And many people, like me, have stuff they want to get off their chest.
I used to use it as a way to bed women. Its just a reapplication s'all
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 8:41 PM Discreet Label has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 9:23 PM iano has replied

Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 24 of 300 (331329)
07-12-2006 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by iano
07-12-2006 9:14 PM


Re: and another thing...
I'm curious when you listen to these things do you focus solely on the unhappiness and act as an outlet for temporary relief or what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 9:14 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 9:43 PM Discreet Label has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 25 of 300 (331334)
07-12-2006 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by iano
07-12-2006 9:05 PM


Re: and another thing...
quote:
Same here - but there are all kinds of ways to eliminate threat. One doesn't stare manically. You could look straight into their eyes for x seconds then look away demurely, flutter the eyelashes once or twice, look hesitantly back...away.. and then your good for another minute. Putty in your hands Shraf.
Well, yeah.
I am a VERY good salesperson.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 9:05 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 9:45 PM nator has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 26 of 300 (331335)
07-12-2006 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Discreet Label
07-12-2006 9:23 PM


Re: and another thing...
I'm curious, when you listen to these things do you focus solely on the unhappiness and act as an outlet for temporary relief or what?
Sometimes its that. It depends on the person themselves. Ultimately my goal is as a beggar pointing to other beggars where it is they may find food. But if its simply shelter from the storm then that's good enough for me. Often I am in the same storm as them in many ways
Don't see it as I am here. Here is out and out preaching in whatever guise. There it is different. I don't listen for 10 minutes and then ram a tract down their throat if that is what you mean.
I've been talking to certain folk for years and have never mentioned God. It would be unseemly to do so it seems to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 9:23 PM Discreet Label has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 9:49 PM iano has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 27 of 300 (331336)
07-12-2006 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by nator
07-12-2006 9:43 PM


Re: and another thing...
Swoon...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by nator, posted 07-12-2006 9:43 PM nator has not replied

Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 28 of 300 (331338)
07-12-2006 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by iano
07-12-2006 9:43 PM


Re: and another thing...
So then what I am hearing is that while you there working with people you sit down and you listen and try to help them move toward a solution?
Yet while you are here, what i am hearing is that you are all words and no listening? Is that a proper interpretation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 9:43 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 9:57 PM Discreet Label has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 29 of 300 (331340)
07-12-2006 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Discreet Label
07-12-2006 9:49 PM


Re: and another thing...
If you had to take a heavily caricatured version of it then yeah that would be about it. You see, there, people aren't typically aware that they have such a thing as a worldview. The starting point is a long way back. Different zone altogether.
Here, people are typically quite smart, have their worldview figured out and are speaking worldview only. I mean by and large it is worldview pitched against worldview. All are preaching in one form or another. Few are genuine out and out seekers. Less head cradled on breast - more pitched battle. Horses for courses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 9:49 PM Discreet Label has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 10:12 PM iano has not replied

Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 30 of 300 (331344)
07-12-2006 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by iano
07-12-2006 9:57 PM


Re: and another thing...
So, what i am hearing you saying is that you assume that because you are here to preach your worldview that everyone else present here must also be doing the same thing? Pitting your world view against another person's?
And that because you feel people here are generally smart around here that then means they aren't interested in coming to understand or being open to change their world views or exploring another person's world view?
I would name number of the participants as lifelong learners vs being smart, but we'll go into that later if you are interested.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 9:57 PM iano has not replied

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