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EvC Forum Science Forums Creation/Evolution Miscellany

# The Ark - materials, construction and seaworthness

Author Topic:   The Ark - materials, construction and seaworthness
DrJones*
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Joined: 08-19-2004
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 Message 196 of 231 (331232) 07-12-2006 5:34 PM Reply to: Message 185 by iano07-12-2006 4:08 PM

 A look a the density of wood shows us that we would be very safe in assuming (and it makes explaining easier) that the arks wood was about as half as dense as water. (the figures here are density relative to water which is 1000 kgs/m3)

What is the density of "gopherwood"? Can you provide any of it's physical properties?

 Thus for every animal (approximate density the same as water) you need to excavate twice the animals volume out of the wood in order to maintain the animal filled ark half in/half out of the water

How many animals were on the ark? Of what sizes? If you're going to remove twice the volume of animals you need to know the total volume of animals.

 Is such a beast going to capsize? I think not.

Can you provide any calculations to support your thinking?

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor
 This message is a reply to: Message 185 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 4:08 PM iano has responded

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DrJones*
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Member Rating: 3.9

 Message 197 of 231 (331233) 07-12-2006 5:37 PM Reply to: Message 190 by iano07-12-2006 4:51 PM

 You talk technolgy as if anything here was super-complex going on here

Well seeeing as no wooden boat of the ark's alleged dimensions has been constructed calling it "complex" isn't that far from reality.

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor
 This message is a reply to: Message 190 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 4:51 PM iano has responded

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iano
Member (Idle past 75 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
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 Message 198 of 231 (331251) 07-12-2006 6:20 PM Reply to: Message 196 by DrJones*07-12-2006 5:34 PM

This is a science thread DJ and reasoned argument suffices. If most all woods in the world have a density half that of water then the onus is one you to come up with a reason to think gopherwood is summit else

 How many animals were on the ark?

My, you are getting desparate...

 Can you provide any calculations to support your thinking?

If I have to provide calculations for the nose on your face then you are talking to the wrong person DJ. This is a debate forum - not analgazing.

 This message is a reply to: Message 196 by DrJones*, posted 07-12-2006 5:34 PM DrJones* has responded

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iano
Member (Idle past 75 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005

 Message 199 of 231 (331255) 07-12-2006 6:29 PM Reply to: Message 197 by DrJones*07-12-2006 5:37 PM

If I were building a boat of the arks dimensions then I wouldn't build it as I suppose it would have been built. Me? I would have welded it together. Needs must.
 This message is a reply to: Message 197 by DrJones*, posted 07-12-2006 5:37 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

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CK
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 Message 200 of 231 (331260) 07-12-2006 6:35 PM Reply to: Message 198 by iano07-12-2006 6:20 PM

 Iano writes:My, you are getting desparate...

Seems a perfectly sensible question when you make statements like:

quote:
Thus for every animal (approximate density the same as water) you need to excavate twice the animals volume out of the wood in order to maintain the animal filled ark half in/half out of the water

So how many animals were on the ark? - if I remember correctly 12,000 is the figure that most of the creationist organizations seem to go for. what figure do you go for?

 This message is a reply to: Message 198 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 6:20 PM iano has not yet responded

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 Message 201 of 231 (331261) 07-12-2006 6:35 PM Reply to: Message 199 by iano07-12-2006 6:29 PM

A reminder for Iano
Continued response of the sort exemplified by the last few will earn you a suspension from the science forums.

This discussion does appear to be about construction and seaworthyness. That is, in case you hadn't noticed, engineering. Engineering requires calculations and doing those is not "anal".

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DrJones*
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 Message 202 of 231 (331269) 07-12-2006 6:49 PM Reply to: Message 198 by iano07-12-2006 6:20 PM

 This is a debate forum - not analgazing.

This is the science side of the debate forum, calculations and requests for them are to be expected.

 If most all woods in the world have a density half that of water then the onus is one you to come up with a reason to think gopherwood is summit else

Seeing as nobody can provide a sample of "gopherwood" or any of its physical properties, setting it's density to be the average of known woods is a big leap of faith.

 My, you are getting desparate...

VTotal - 2VAnimals > 0

So if the ark's dimensions are: 450' long, 75' wide, and 45' high
Then VTotal = 450 X 75 X 45 = 1518750 ft3

and VAnimals = NAnimals X VAvg Animals

We therefore need to know: NAnimals and VAvg Animals, which is why I asked the question.

Surely you're not afraid of a little math?

Edited by DrJones*, : it needed to be mathier

Edited by DrJones*, : also needed gud spelin

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor
 This message is a reply to: Message 198 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 6:20 PM iano has not yet responded

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iano
Member (Idle past 75 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
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 Message 203 of 231 (331276) 07-12-2006 7:07 PM Reply to: Message 201 by AdminNosy07-12-2006 6:35 PM

Re: A reminder for Iano
I recently completed a \$10 million (building and machinery) engineering project (Robin take note) and you know what, the most math I used was pi x r squared and some mental ritmatick

Amazing how little math you need in engineering when you know what your doing.

Its hard to believe isn't it?

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arachnophilia
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Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
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 Message 204 of 231 (331283) 07-12-2006 7:26 PM Reply to: Message 203 by iano07-12-2006 7:07 PM

 Amazing how little math you need in engineering when you know what your doing.Its hard to believe isn't it?

no, it's not.

my father teaches mathematics at a state university. the phrase "engineering major" has almost become synonymous with "bad at math" at this point. guess who always fails his calc class?

these are the same clowns that send a probe to mars and miss because they don't convert their units.

אָרַח

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NosyNed
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 Message 205 of 231 (331284) 07-12-2006 7:27 PM Reply to: Message 202 by DrJones*07-12-2006 6:49 PM

leap of faith -- big?
 Seeing as nobody can provide a sample of "gopherwood" or any of its physical properties, setting it's density to be the average of known woods is a big leap of faith.

Not a big leap of faith at all. Seems to me to be a reasonable place to start and see if there is a great deal of sensitivity to the density.

 This is the science side of the debate forum, calculations and requests for them are to be expected.

Yes, and both sides should be prepared to supply some. I see you started with a bit but didn't finish.

 This message is a reply to: Message 202 by DrJones*, posted 07-12-2006 6:49 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

iano
Member (Idle past 75 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
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 Message 206 of 231 (331286) 07-12-2006 7:43 PM Reply to: Message 204 by arachnophilia07-12-2006 7:26 PM

Re: i'm staying off your bridges
Yeah, math is not strong point in engineers in general. We get by though.

As the world doth testify.

Does that constitute evidence around here?

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iano
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Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
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 Message 207 of 231 (331291) 07-12-2006 8:07 PM Reply to: Message 206 by iano07-12-2006 7:43 PM

Re: i'm staying off your bridges
Real life engineering:

This highflying NASA uncle of mine is sent to a Stateside satellite build project to check out why its so far behind schedule. The deal is to audit - but in secret. So he arrives on site at 10pm when all the managers are away.

Deep down in the facilty he walks down the corridor to the room marked "Shake-The-Satellite-To-Bits Test Rig". This rig is a multi-million dollar piece of test kit where satellites and their componants are placed in order to subject them to a carefully analysed (by the A-grade engineering students) series of shake and vibrate programmes - which aim to replicate all the sufferings the satellite will undergo in its lifetime. Every conceiveable shake-and-vibrate parameter is programmable into this machine.

He opens the door to the 0.1 micron air filtered room to find the nightshift supervisor coitus-about-to-interuptus with the nightshift supervisoress. The multi-million dollar machine is set to a medium paced back-and-forth reciprocating programme

Sometimes I wonder about the planet some live on here. Do they not know the world exists out there?

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RickJB
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 Message 208 of 231 (331363) 07-13-2006 2:18 AM Reply to: Message 207 by iano07-12-2006 8:07 PM

Re: i'm staying off your bridges
Nice diversion, Iano!

So, how many animals were on the ark?

 This message is a reply to: Message 207 by iano, posted 07-12-2006 8:07 PM iano has not yet responded

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 54 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004

 Message 209 of 231 (331375) 07-13-2006 6:18 AM Reply to: Message 181 by Percy07-12-2006 9:09 AM

Creationism is a ligitimate science. It's maybe the people practicing it, that aren't legitimate.

Tell me, what is the difference between coming up with a theory that a tomb exists in Egypt somewhere, and searching for it, and coming with a theory that the earth and everything in it was created by a God, and searching for the proof?

Your saying that Theological Creationism is not science?

http://www.creationism.org/
On their front page they quote bible verses.

even wikipedia's definition of creationism does not say that it is exclusively without God involved.

But, I guess it's off-topic.

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 54 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004

 Message 210 of 231 (331379) 07-13-2006 6:47 AM Reply to: Message 182 by ringo07-12-2006 12:37 PM

Who said there was waves during the flood anyway?

 You need to be a lot more critical of your sources. You should be asking them the questions that people are asking you.

I am!

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