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Author Topic:   Hovind busted, finally
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5515
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 1 of 308 (331646)
07-13-2006 10:12 PM


And on 58 federal counts, starting with tax evasion.
linky

And the judge was Miles Davis, which is kind of nice in itself.


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jar
Member
Posts: 32683
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 2 of 308 (331650)
07-13-2006 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Coragyps
07-13-2006 10:12 PM


And you didn't think there was a GOD
Couldn't happen to a nicer man. Maybe a few years as Bubba's Bitch may change his point of view.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 726 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 3 of 308 (331651)
07-13-2006 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Coragyps
07-13-2006 10:12 PM


Such sweet, sweet schadenfreude.

It's just so beautiful.

I love life. ;)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Coragyps, posted 07-13-2006 10:12 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 4910 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 4 of 308 (331654)
07-13-2006 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Coragyps
07-13-2006 10:12 PM


Any idea how long the trial is likely to be?

Is there any chance he'll get off (he can probably afford a top class weasel lawyer)?


Oops! Wrong Planet

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Percy
Member
Posts: 19846
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 5 of 308 (331686)
07-14-2006 7:05 AM


We don't yet know if the difficulties involved simple greed and avarice, like the Bakkers and their time-share/theme-park, or whether they were tempted to not pay income taxes during a period of low cash flow. Perhaps not too much unlike many a meek embezzler, they may have been sucked in one tiny mostly innocent step at a time ("I always intended to replace the money..."). Does anyone know the details of the tax complaints?

I'm most curious about the "threats against investigators and filing false complaints." This seems a quite a bit more unchristian than mere mismanagement of money.

My guess is that Hovind will take advantage of these difficulties to promote his ministry. I predict that he will tell his flock that his difficulties with the IRS stem from efforts by his enemies to silence him and prevent him from doing the Lord's work. Everyone likes a David and Goliath story, and so Hovind will portray himself as David to the sinister government's Goliath.

Much hate is directed at Hovind here at EvC Forum because of the glib way he manipulates, misrepresents and makes up information. Even if his PhD is from a diploma mill, I've heard him in front of audiences and on the radio, and he is very impressive, especially when responding to questions and engaging in give and take. His degree might be fake, but his command and mastery of a great deal of information (and misinformation) must be credited. He is a more than worthy opponent, and to denigrate him would set you on the path to the error of underestimating him.

So take no joy in Hovind's difficulties. He will likely spring from the ashes of his travails stronger and more daunting than before.

I hope people will post details here as they become available.

--Percy


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Percy
Member
Posts: 19846
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 6 of 308 (331687)
07-14-2006 7:15 AM


Here's an interesting excerpt from an article titled Park could face extinction that appeared in the Pensacola News on 4/7/2006:

Owners of the park, which shows how dinosaurs may have roamed the Earth just a few thousand years ago, did not obtain a building permit before constructing the building in 2002. They have argued in and out of court that it violates their "deeply held" religious beliefs, and that the church-run facility does not have to obtain permits.

Obtaining building permits violates their "deeply held" religious beliefs?

There was also mention of the tax case that has now reached fruition:

· In 2004, The Internal Revenue Service raided Hovind's home and businesses. Agents said Hovind had failed to pay taxes. That case is pending, and federal attorneys declined to comment about it.

Here's another couple interesting excerpts, this time about Glen Stoll, evidently a Hovind legal advisor:

"This is pure religious persecution," said Glen Stoll, who works closely with Hovind on legal issues.

...

Last year, the U.S. attorney in Seattle filed a lawsuit against Stoll, charging him with promoting a scheme encouraging people to avoid paying taxes by claiming to be religious entities, according to news reports.

The Hovind circle seems to operate with quite a bit of chutzpah and arrogance.

--Percy


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Percy
Member
Posts: 19846
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 7 of 308 (331689)
07-14-2006 7:40 AM


Holy, holy cow!
These are excerpts from a copy of SUPPLEMENTAL FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW posted at TalkOrigins concerning Hovind's 1996 tax case. Apparently he's done this before and can now be said to have a modus operandi. You just won't believe some of this stuff:

In his schedules and statement of affairs, the debtor represents that he is an evangelist employed by God and that he receives no income, has no expenses, owns absolutely no property, and has no creditors except for the IRS with a claim of $10,602.31.

...

Real property records from Escambia County, Florida reflect that the debtor and his wife purchased a home on December 16, 1993...a purchase price of $90,000 for the house with the debtor paying $30,369.43 down...Additionally, the debtor has three children all of whom attend a private Christian school for which he and his wife pay approximately $4,800.00 per year in tuition and fees.

...

The evidence presented at the hearing paints a clear portrait of a tax protester whose sole purpose in seeking relief under chapter 13 was to obtain the release of property seized by the IRS. The IRS in this case has filed a proof of claim setting forth a secured tax claim in the amount of $10,461.36 for the tax years 1989, 1990, and 1991, and a priority claim in the amount of $10,690.46 for the years 1992, 1993, 1994, and 1995. The IRS records reflect that notwithstanding his earning of income during the years in question, the debtor has failed to file any federal income tax returns for those tax years for which the IRS has filed its proof of claim. Furthermore, the IRS has no record of the debtor ever having filed a federal income tax return. [1]

...

Rather than appearing and producing any of the records set forth in the summons, the debtor submitted a letter to Revenue Officer Powe claiming that he is "a non resident alien to the federal government,"...

...

...the debtor contended that the IRS tax lien/levy was invalid and that he was an inhabitant of the "Florida Republic". The debtor further threatened to sue Revenue Officer Powe in federal criminal court for her actions and did in fact file a lawsuit against her individually in federal district court, which was later withdrawn.

...

Here, the debtor, who has failed to acknowledge his obligations as a citizen and taxpayer of the United States, seeks to utilize this taxpayer supported court in order to thwart the lawful collection efforts of the Internal Revenue Service.

...

The debtor having failed to file his federal income tax returns for at least the years 1989 through 1995, having resisted collection efforts by the IRS, and having provided false information in his schedules and statement of affairs in connection with this case, I find that the debtor filed this petition in bad faith and as such the petition is subject to dismissal for cause under the provisions of 11 U.S.C. 1307(c).

This was way back in 1996. And he apparently left the court room and continued doing precisely what he had been doing, and now the government has caught up with him yet again. Unbelievable!

--Percy


Brian
Member (Idle past 3516 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 8 of 308 (331690)
07-14-2006 7:52 AM


Does the USA still have the 'insanity' plea?

Brian.


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Percy
Member
Posts: 19846
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 9 of 308 (331692)
07-14-2006 7:58 AM


I think arguing with everyone may just be Hovind's way of dealing with the world. I keep forgetting that other creationist organizations have nearly as much difficulty dealing with Hovind's nonsense as we do. I just "rediscovered" this document that I've seen before, where AIG addresses Hovind's rebuttal of their Arguments we think creationists should NOT use article:

Maintaining Creationist Integrity: A response to Kent Hovind

--Percy


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PaulK
Member
Posts: 16338
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 10 of 308 (331694)
07-14-2006 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Percy
07-14-2006 7:58 AM


Yet more proof that the apologetic mindset has problems dealign with reality.

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cavediver
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 11 of 308 (331697)
07-14-2006 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Percy
07-14-2006 7:58 AM


You have to smile at AIG's comments on Ron Wyatt ;)

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 Message 9 by Percy, posted 07-14-2006 7:58 AM Percy has not yet responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 19846
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 12 of 308 (331704)
07-14-2006 8:49 AM


I hear rumors of a lawyer newly in our midst who has yet to post but has been sighted in the chatroom. Perhaps someone could interest him in listening to a couple Hovind presentations and rendering his opinions on the rhetoric and how best to counter it. There were some links to Hovind radio programs and presentations in the Jared v. Hovind thread, here's a couple:

http://www.math.dartmouth.edu/~aquishix/Hovind/
http://evolution.no-ip.net/seminar1.asp

--Percy


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5515
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 13 of 308 (331726)
07-14-2006 11:32 AM


It's getting better:
The Pensacola paper reports:
Of the 58 charges, 44 were filed against Kent Hovind and his wife, Jo, for evading bank reporting requirements as they withdrew $430,500 from AmSouth Bank between July 20, 2001, and Aug. 9, 2002.

At the couple's first court appearance Thursday before U.S. Magistrate Judge Miles Davis, Kent Hovind professed not to understand why he is being prosecuted. Some 20 supporters were in the courtroom.

"I still don't understand what I'm being charged for and who is charging me," he said.


Over Kent Hovind's protests, the judge took away his passport and guns Hovind claimed belonged to his church.

Hovind argued that he needs his passport to continue his evangelism work. He said "thousands and thousands" are waiting to hear him preach in South Africa next month.

Guns that belong to the church? WTF?


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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 308 (331740)
07-14-2006 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Coragyps
07-14-2006 11:32 AM


Guns that belong to the church? WTF?

Time to win some souls for Christ... with extreme prejudice.


"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird

This message is a reply to:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2468 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 15 of 308 (331742)
07-14-2006 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Coragyps
07-14-2006 11:32 AM


Guns that belong to the church? WTF?

Obviously to protect the congregation from dinosaurs, or worse, evolutionists.


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
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