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Author Topic:   Hovind busted, finally
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 5 of 308 (331686)
07-14-2006 7:05 AM


We don't yet know if the difficulties involved simple greed and avarice, like the Bakkers and their time-share/theme-park, or whether they were tempted to not pay income taxes during a period of low cash flow. Perhaps not too much unlike many a meek embezzler, they may have been sucked in one tiny mostly innocent step at a time ("I always intended to replace the money..."). Does anyone know the details of the tax complaints?
I'm most curious about the "threats against investigators and filing false complaints." This seems a quite a bit more unchristian than mere mismanagement of money.
My guess is that Hovind will take advantage of these difficulties to promote his ministry. I predict that he will tell his flock that his difficulties with the IRS stem from efforts by his enemies to silence him and prevent him from doing the Lord's work. Everyone likes a David and Goliath story, and so Hovind will portray himself as David to the sinister government's Goliath.
Much hate is directed at Hovind here at EvC Forum because of the glib way he manipulates, misrepresents and makes up information. Even if his PhD is from a diploma mill, I've heard him in front of audiences and on the radio, and he is very impressive, especially when responding to questions and engaging in give and take. His degree might be fake, but his command and mastery of a great deal of information (and misinformation) must be credited. He is a more than worthy opponent, and to denigrate him would set you on the path to the error of underestimating him.
So take no joy in Hovind's difficulties. He will likely spring from the ashes of his travails stronger and more daunting than before.
I hope people will post details here as they become available.
--Percy

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 6 of 308 (331687)
07-14-2006 7:15 AM


Here's an interesting excerpt from an article titled Park could face extinction that appeared in the Pensacola News on 4/7/2006:
Owners of the park, which shows how dinosaurs may have roamed the Earth just a few thousand years ago, did not obtain a building permit before constructing the building in 2002. They have argued in and out of court that it violates their "deeply held" religious beliefs, and that the church-run facility does not have to obtain permits.
Obtaining building permits violates their "deeply held" religious beliefs?
There was also mention of the tax case that has now reached fruition:
· In 2004, The Internal Revenue Service raided Hovind's home and businesses. Agents said Hovind had failed to pay taxes. That case is pending, and federal attorneys declined to comment about it.
Here's another couple interesting excerpts, this time about Glen Stoll, evidently a Hovind legal advisor:
"This is pure religious persecution," said Glen Stoll, who works closely with Hovind on legal issues.
...
Last year, the U.S. attorney in Seattle filed a lawsuit against Stoll, charging him with promoting a scheme encouraging people to avoid paying taxes by claiming to be religious entities, according to news reports.
The Hovind circle seems to operate with quite a bit of chutzpah and arrogance.
--Percy

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 7 of 308 (331689)
07-14-2006 7:40 AM


Holy, holy cow!
These are excerpts from a copy of SUPPLEMENTAL FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW posted at TalkOrigins concerning Hovind's 1996 tax case. Apparently he's done this before and can now be said to have a modus operandi. You just won't believe some of this stuff:
In his schedules and statement of affairs, the debtor represents that he is an evangelist employed by God and that he receives no income, has no expenses, owns absolutely no property, and has no creditors except for the IRS with a claim of $10,602.31.
...
Real property records from Escambia County, Florida reflect that the debtor and his wife purchased a home on December 16, 1993...a purchase price of $90,000 for the house with the debtor paying $30,369.43 down...Additionally, the debtor has three children all of whom attend a private Christian school for which he and his wife pay approximately $4,800.00 per year in tuition and fees.
...
The evidence presented at the hearing paints a clear portrait of a tax protester whose sole purpose in seeking relief under chapter 13 was to obtain the release of property seized by the IRS. The IRS in this case has filed a proof of claim setting forth a secured tax claim in the amount of $10,461.36 for the tax years 1989, 1990, and 1991, and a priority claim in the amount of $10,690.46 for the years 1992, 1993, 1994, and 1995. The IRS records reflect that notwithstanding his earning of income during the years in question, the debtor has failed to file any federal income tax returns for those tax years for which the IRS has filed its proof of claim. Furthermore, the IRS has no record of the debtor ever having filed a federal income tax return. [1]
...
Rather than appearing and producing any of the records set forth in the summons, the debtor submitted a letter to Revenue Officer Powe claiming that he is "a non resident alien to the federal government,"...
...
...the debtor contended that the IRS tax lien/levy was invalid and that he was an inhabitant of the "Florida Republic". The debtor further threatened to sue Revenue Officer Powe in federal criminal court for her actions and did in fact file a lawsuit against her individually in federal district court, which was later withdrawn.
...
Here, the debtor, who has failed to acknowledge his obligations as a citizen and taxpayer of the United States, seeks to utilize this taxpayer supported court in order to thwart the lawful collection efforts of the Internal Revenue Service.
...
The debtor having failed to file his federal income tax returns for at least the years 1989 through 1995, having resisted collection efforts by the IRS, and having provided false information in his schedules and statement of affairs in connection with this case, I find that the debtor filed this petition in bad faith and as such the petition is subject to dismissal for cause under the provisions of 11 U.S.C. 1307(c).
This was way back in 1996. And he apparently left the court room and continued doing precisely what he had been doing, and now the government has caught up with him yet again. Unbelievable!
--Percy

Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 9 of 308 (331692)
07-14-2006 7:58 AM


I think arguing with everyone may just be Hovind's way of dealing with the world. I keep forgetting that other creationist organizations have nearly as much difficulty dealing with Hovind's nonsense as we do. I just "rediscovered" this document that I've seen before, where AIG addresses Hovind's rebuttal of their Arguments we think creationists should NOT use article:
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by PaulK, posted 07-14-2006 8:05 AM Percy has not replied
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 Message 28 by randman, posted 07-15-2006 2:14 AM Percy has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 12 of 308 (331704)
07-14-2006 8:49 AM


I hear rumors of a lawyer newly in our midst who has yet to post but has been sighted in the chatroom. Perhaps someone could interest him in listening to a couple Hovind presentations and rendering his opinions on the rhetoric and how best to counter it. There were some links to Hovind radio programs and presentations in the Jared v. Hovind thread, here's a couple:
--Percy

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 21 of 308 (331770)
07-14-2006 3:34 PM


I'm curious!
I'm curious whether Hovind ever advocates tax evasion in any of his public utterances. Taxes don't seem to be mentioned at the Dr. Dino website. I've only watched one video presentation by Hovind, and only listened to one of the Jared call-in radio programs, so maybe he mentions it in one of those. Anyone know?
--Percy

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 34 of 308 (331921)
07-15-2006 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by randman
07-15-2006 2:14 AM


Re: what about the other side's story here?
randman writes:
If he was guilty of tax fraud way back in 96, then what happened? I am not saying he isn't wrong, but I am curious. He obviously didn't go to jail or prison. What was the basis he was able to dodge the IRS?
I couldn't find out any details of the final outcome of Hovind's 1996 tax case. My guess is that the seized property (cars, a computer) was sufficient to settle the tax bill, and that the charge was civil fraud, not criminal. I think the IRS shies away from use of criminal fraud charges in tax protester cases.
The Wikipedia article on Hovind has a Tax Evasion section that mentions an attempt made by the Hovinds in 1998 to "revoke and make void...all signatures on any instruments" on government documents they had signed regarding the 1996 tax case, but I was unable to find any specifics about which documents. Whatever they were, the Hovinds evidently felt they no longer wanted to be held to them.
--Percy

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 Message 28 by randman, posted 07-15-2006 2:14 AM randman has replied

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 Message 39 by randman, posted 07-15-2006 12:32 PM Percy has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 41 of 308 (331969)
07-15-2006 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by randman
07-15-2006 12:32 PM


Re: what about the other side's story here?
randman writes:
I don't know. I thought the IRS specifically went after people with criminal charges if they were blatantly trying to never pay or file.
By and large I think the IRS understands that its primary purpose is revenue. The ultimate destination of any very determined tax protester is probably jail, but I assume the IRS begins most cases by pursuing the money owed it rather than punishment.
I do know that in the recent tax issue the IRS charges Hovind with civil fraud, see page 4 of http://www.ustaxcourt.gov/InOpHistoric/Hovind.TCM.WPD.pdf.
--Percy

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 Message 39 by randman, posted 07-15-2006 12:32 PM randman has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 48 of 308 (332799)
07-18-2006 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Chief Infidel
07-17-2006 10:56 PM


Re: Indictment?
You may have already seen this link that I posted last week:
I don't think this is being treated as a criminal matter at this time, so I don't think there's an indictment. Maybe they call it a complaint for civil matters.
Anyway, if you read the Background section that begins on page 2 it gives a fairly clear description of the IRS complaint.
--Percy

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 71 of 308 (333178)
07-19-2006 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by johnfolton
07-19-2006 12:56 AM


Re: Christian Churches
Their tax-exempt status makes establishment of churches one of the most common strategies for tax evasion. For example, if you establish a church and claim the salary from your employer is actually a donation, the IRS will call this a sham and attempt to collect taxes. This example is, of course, a very obvious sham that could never succeed, but the tax evasion community has over time evolved more and more complex schemes designed to evade the tax man, and the IRS is charged with detecting such schemes and collecting the taxes owed.
This is from http://www.ustaxcourt.gov/InOpHistoric/Hovind.TCM.WPD.pdf (the respondent mentioned below is the IRS):
During an audit and a criminal tax investigation that began in the early spring of 2004, respondent concluded (1) that petitioner appeared to be using the referred-to trust documents as well as various nominees and sham entities for the purpose of concealing ownership and control of his activities and properties, and (2) that substantial revenue from the various activities with which petitioner was involved appeared to constitute income to petitioner personally.
Respondent also concluded that petitioner appeared to be planning to transfer property into the name of a nominee entity (a so-called “corporation sole”) and that this planned transfer, among other things, indicated a “willful and deliberate attempt [by petitioner] to conceal the receipt of taxable income and to evade federal income taxes.”
Hovind's advisor in tax matters is Glenn Stoll, "a known promoter of tax avoidance schemes." If all Hovind's revenue activities were church related he wouldn't need Stoll's tax avoidance schemes, but they're not.
--Percy

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 Message 69 by johnfolton, posted 07-19-2006 12:56 AM johnfolton has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 119 of 308 (357680)
10-20-2006 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Buzsaw
10-19-2006 6:34 PM


Hi Buz,
Your interesting position on federal taxes aside, while it is only the IRS that is after Hovind at present, keep in mind that he has not been paying unemployment or social security taxes for his employees, either. This means they may face difficulties attempting to collect unemployment benefits if/when they lose their jobs at DinoLand, and it means their social security benefits will be less when they retire.
If Richard Feynmann or Albert Einstein was still alive and saying and doing the things Hovind is doing regarding paying employees and taxes, I would call him a scoundrel. But Hovind isn't a scoundrel to you. Interesting.
--Percy

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 158 of 308 (360664)
11-02-2006 6:39 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by Dr Adequate
11-01-2006 2:25 PM


Though your link brings up a Pensacola News Journal page, the box where the news story would normally be was empty. I poked around their site a bit and got a number of Service Not Available messages. Anyway, I did find this link that seems to be working, at least right now:
--Percy

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 Message 157 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-01-2006 2:25 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

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 Message 159 by Percy, posted 11-02-2006 6:48 AM Percy has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 159 of 308 (360671)
11-02-2006 6:48 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Percy
11-02-2006 6:39 AM


Commenting on the article I just referenced, Hovind's attourney, Alan Richey, explained why they would not be calling any witnesses or presenting a defense:
"I don't believe the government met its burden. The government has to prove that (Kent Hovind) knew he had a duty under the law to pay those taxes."
Hovind's attourney thinks ignorance of the law is a valid defense?
Quoting from the article:
Kent Hovind also has said that he is not a citizen of the United States...
I wonder what he uses for a passport.
I'm guessing they're convinced they'll lose and are readying an appeal. You tax law guys out there, what are their appeal options once they lose at the current trial?
--Percy

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 188 of 308 (361062)
11-03-2006 7:50 AM


How I See It
Religion is fertile ground for the conman, and Hovind is a conman who just can't help himself. When faced with a choice between an honest course of action and a con, Hovind has trouble resisting the con. Hovind has been conning innocent Christians for years, not just about religion and science, but about law. "Honey, you're not working for me, you're working for God, so you owe no taxes. By the way, you were late yesterday, don't let it happen again or we, I mean God, will dock your pay. Now please get back to work mopping my, I mean God's, floors." His big mistake was trying to con the federal government.
Law without enforcement is ineffective. Law enforcement serves the purpose of achieving compliance through the threats of fines and incarceration. It is the fear of fines and incarceration, along with acompanying social embarrassment, that causes most compliance.
While fear of incarceration serves as a deterent to most people, for some it is insufficient, and so for them there is actual incarceration, punishment through loss of freedom and civil rights.
Incarceration is also a good alternative for those whose tendency is to encourage others to commit crimes, because it removes them contact with society where they can fulfill this tendency.
Hovind deserves incarceration for two reasons. This isn't the first time he was charged with tax fraud, it's the second, and with his attitude about taxes he's undoubtedly had other tax run-ins that haven't come to national attention. His first tax case was for much lesser amounts and so incarceration was probably only a minor threat, but as he has now repeated the crime for much larger amounts it is clear that the mere threat of incarceration is an insufficient deterrent for Hovind.
So the government must go to the next step of actual incarceration in the hope that when he is released Hovind will have changed his perspective on incarceration and view it as an actual deterrent.
Another reason for incarcerating Hovind is that he encourages others to commit tax crimes, so much so that on at least a couple of occasions other organizations issued warnings to not follow Hovind's tax advice because the actions he encouraged were illegal.
So in my opinion Hovind should be incarcerated, so it is only a question of how long. I think 5 years should do it.
I think it might be reasonable for Hovind's wife to receive no jail time at all, but it depends upon who she really is. Hovind is a master conman, and all within his sphere fall under his spell. Is Hovind's wife someone who dearly loves him and believes in him and would do anything this wonderful person doing the Lord's work all around the world says? Or is she as knowing and conniving as Hovind himself? Upon the answers to these questions should rest the decision of whether she serves time in jail. If she is Hovind's victim instead of his accomplice then she should serve no time.
That's how I see it.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 196 of 308 (364289)
11-17-2006 7:18 AM


No new news, but...
The Pensacola News Journal site is kind of weird. Though many of the links to old articles about Hovind still work, you can't find them through the site's search facility.
Anyway, I was checking to see if there was any new news about Hovind and found this much more human article about the end of the trial, also apparently from the Pensacola News Journal, and one that if it was posted here in this thread that I somehow missed: Kent Hovind, ”Dr. Dino,’ guilty on all counts. Some excerpts:
Pensacola evangelist and tax protester Kent Hovind winked at his wife and gave her a reassuring smile as he was led away to jail.
...
A 12-person jury deliberated for 21/2 hours on Thursday before finding the couple guilty of all counts in their tax-fraud case.
Kent Hovind, founder of Creation Science Evangelism and Dinosaur Adventure Land in Pensacola, was found guilty of 58 counts, including failure to pay $845,000 in employee-related taxes. He faces a maximum of 288 years in prison.
Jo Hovind was charged and convicted in 44 of the counts involving evading bank-reporting requirements. She faces up to 225 years in prison but was allowed to remain free pending the couple’s sentencing on Jan. 9.
...
The jury also granted the prosecution’s request for the Hovinds to forfeit $430,400. That amount equals the value of the checks signed and cashed by Jo Hovind in the 44 counts.
...
U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers released Jo Hovind until sentencing but denied Kent Hovind’s request to be released. He most likely will be detained at either Escambia County Jail or Santa Rosa County Jail until sentencing.
Heldmyer said Kent Hovind was a flight risk and a “danger to the community.”
...
Richard Hogan, an acquaintance of Kent Hovind who observed the last day of the two-week trial, said he felt especially bad for Jo Hovind.
“He was the leader, and she probably went along with him,” said Hogan, 53. He first met the Hovinds when their children were homeschooled.
I didn't realize that apparently, at this very moment, Kent Hovind is sitting in jail.
--Percy

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