Unethical practices in Evangelism. What is the value of the conversions?

If I was on the recieving end of that dating scenerio, I would be a little pissed, and I doubt I would take anything the person posing as a Jew, to be valid.I think there is a line you shouldn't cross, when "becoming like a Jew". That line is subjective, but he definatly crossed it by giving false hope to that poor lady.

There is no value on a conversion based on lies, unless the person is truely converted in their heart. I doubt this would happen if it was based on lies, but anything is possible.The unethical methods definatly stain all evangelistic efforts. So do Preists who molest children. So does a Nun who tries to hit you with a ruler, and not answer your question about mother Mary, and prayer in the bible.The best thing we can do, is exactly what you did, and that is to point this stuff out as much as possible, but not to say, that all evangilists are bad, or all preists are bad. Christians should be leading this front. (Unless all means many )

I may be wrong, but we are all always in a vunerable state, because we all seek God. The word vunerable can be relative.But the way I would do it, is to just love that person when they are down, and love them the way God loves me. To help that person in their time of need. When it's all over, if they ask why, then I can tell them about God's love. If I am doing it in the true spirit of the Lord, and in God's love, they will have to then know who God is, because it is not me acting alone. It is a "true love" and they will know. I thank God for showing me this.

I had to add something to my last reply, and that is my interpretation of "becoming like a Jew".That means to live with people without offending them, accepting their ways, not rejecting them because of your belief's. To love them, and be like them in their traditions, but definatly not lie to them. How can you decieve someone when trying to deliver the truth to them?

If I would have never came to this forum, I would have never thought there should be a good time, or a bad time to share the gospel. I would never have looked at whether I was taking advantage of someone's mis-fortune.The way I see it right now, is if the gospel is truth, then it must be preached on the premise of truth.So maybe every situation calls for it's own judgment. If I go to another country and feed starving people, and preach the gospel to them, people in here would call that exploiting them. But if it was the lack of the gospel that got them to where they are, then I say it is not exploiting them. Many cultures can change for the better, once the truth is revealed to them.Another example is like the one iano was speaking of before with his neighbor. The reason his neighbor is in the state he/she is, might be ebcause of the lack of knowing the Lord. There is a void, so knowing the Lord would help them.But overall, I don't think being vunerable is going to determine if a person will make a true choice in their heart about Jesus. Jesus will only start to work in someone's life unless the repentence is real, and true.Also being vunerable has nothing to do with the intentions of the person preaching. If the person preaching, or evangilising is doing it out of love, and from the Spirit, then the true gospel will reach that person. I find that to be a good thing. If the person preaching is just doing it for his/her own personal gain, then it doesn't matter when or how they are doing it. I find it wrong. It must be done for the glory of God, not for the exploitation of vunerable people, or another notch in the belt. If someone is truely in touch with the Spirit, then they will pray about each individual situation, and God will lead them to the right thing to do.

Good point. I wouldn't say all peopl in third worlds are starving because they are not Christian.But say that there was food available for them, and a way to get it, but it is the way they act, that prevents them from having it. Coming to know the Love of Jesus might change all that for them. It is part of what we do in Hope for the Nations. We make todays orphans tomorrows leaders, so they can become self suffcient, after we help them get started.Evem right here in New orleans, ther are many down there who are turning to God, because once you lose all your material possessions, you start to realize just exactly what is important. Check otu the movie "end of the spear." It's about tribes in Ecuador. Although they weren't starving, they were killing each other off. Coming to know the Lord has changed that for them. It is based on a true story. It is opne example of how the Lord can change societies for the better. If the true spirit of the Lord would fall on these people, it could change, I believe that with all my heart. Agreed.

You are turning it into an absolute. I quote myself from Message 56

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But if it was the lack of the gospel that got them to where they are, then I say it is not exploiting them. Many cultures can change for the better, once the truth is revealed to them.

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I used the word if.
As far as another culture benifiting from hearing the truth, the Waodani tribe in the movie end of the spear, is the perfect example. I am sure there are many more examples. This statement isn't trying to make Christianity into some life changing thing, because we all know the record that Chrisitianity has. But the true gospel, or the real spirit of God, can change lives, not religion. That is what I am trying to get at. You know that's not what I mean, that would be wrong. We go help people whether they choose Jesus or not. Hope for the Nations will even use non-faith based grants to go and help people, that means we cannot even preach the gospel to them. IF you read my other comments in this thread, you would know that I believe if we just act out of the love of God, and Christ, then that is all that is necessary to bring them the truth. Well that's just it. I am not up on all the specifics of it, but New Orleans was not known for it's Christianity, they were known for their voodoo. But your right, people will cling on to any hope they have.Edited by riVeRraT, : fixed quote bracket

Why don't you and your husband come down with me and mine and help out?

Is that the same Holy ground where people lift their shirts up for beads?

Nothing, and I know enough about voodoo, to know that it is not the way.

In comparison, there is more voodoo in New Orleans than any other place in the US.There is the filth that is mardi gras, and 10's of thousands of people who mooch of the government and live in poverty, by choice.These statments are not judgements, they are fact. One has to examine the facts.But this conversation is pointles, because I consider it irrelevent to what happened to them, that would be judging them. There are many fine people in New Orleans, I have relatives there, and online gaming friends, that I spend many nights on comms with.I am speaking from the point that our missions group went there, and got to pray for people who didnb't believe, that after the fact consider it, because maybe, just maybe God spoke to them in their hearts about what happened to them. It is the fear of death that will make you think about God for sure. If you don't like that, that is your perogative.I invited you to come with us, so that maybe we could look at it first hand together, help some people in need, and show the rest of the community that we are capable of getting along regardless of belief's.It is a moral of mine, to lay down issues, and get along with people no matter the circumstance. Is it for you? I only want to go help people, and bring as many as I can with me.

No, I didn't say that, that is what you concluded.I am going to to first, help, and pray for people who want prayer.While I am there, I will learn about what is left of the area. Anything I learn will be most likely irrelevent to how things where before Katrina. People are turning to God, whether they are Christian or not. Everyone can always press into God more, including myself. Super Nitendo is right, I have never been there. I can only go by what I see on TV, and what my father told me about the place. BTW, my dad isn't into God as much as I am, but he was disgusted by what he saw.It is what it is, and that is just a fact, not a judgment call.
If I said they were going to hell, then I would be judging them.

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New Orleans has one of the highest poverty rates of any of America's big cities. According to a report by Total Community Action, a New Orleans public advocacy group, nearly one out of three New Orleans residents live below the poverty level, the majority of who are black.

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http://www.blacknews.com/pr/looting101.html

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In Louisiana, the poverty level is 19.6 percent for the state's 4.3 million residents. In New Orleans, the poverty rate is an astounding 27.9 percent for the city's 468,453 residents.

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Error 27.9% of 468,453 is 130698 people. Are you denying that opportunity exists in America, and that if you want to, you do not have to live in poverty?Look I grew up in NYC, and I have seen first hand how "people in poverty" live, and how they mooch off the government, and take from our taxes. A person living on welfare can recieve up to $60,000 in benifits once you add it all up. Why wouldn't they want to live "in poverty"?I won't even debate this with you further. If you don't believe me, or think that the majority of these people live in poverty by choice, then you need to take some reality lessons, and go find out or yourself. If thats the way it was, then thats what we would say. No one can deny their creator in times of need. It is what is in them, it comes from your own heart. There is no exploiting going on, as we have nothing to gain from them knowing God. And your living in denial, thanks for another attack on the person, not the subject, and stooping to calling us names. Were is the dam admin?

I never said Christianity was rare in New Orleans. I do not know the level of Christianity in New Orleans. I am going to stay in a Christian church, so obviously there is some Christianity there.What I calimed was that New Orleans is the voodoo capitol of the US, which you seem to be ignoring, and turning around my statements to make me a ppear false.Are you denying that New Orleans is the voodoo capitol of the US?Authentic New Orleans Voodoo Dolls, Spells & Voodoo Magic Products
http://www.voodoomusicfest.com/2006/home.phpThey even have their own football team, lol
http://www.govoodoo.com/Not only that, but again schraf you attack the person not the subject, this time in third person. If you can't even follow some simple forum rules, then why should we believe anything you have to say? Do demons drive out demons?I am tired of this claim of exploitation from you, it is total BS.To me it is you making exuses.