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Author Topic:   Giant People in the bible?
nyenye
Inactive Member


Message 181 of 352 (332118)
07-16-2006 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by MUTTY6969
07-16-2006 12:18 AM


Re: giant
Nephilim - Wikipedia
Thought it was pretty interesting

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by MUTTY6969, posted 07-16-2006 12:18 AM MUTTY6969 has replied

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MUTTY6969
Member (Idle past 6190 days)
Posts: 65
From: ARIZONA
Joined: 05-20-2006


Message 182 of 352 (332127)
07-16-2006 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by nyenye
07-16-2006 12:25 AM


Re: giant
Not very interesting at all...I see only the bible as the reference and that is telling.
This isn’t the sci-fi forum, it’s the science forum. What I meant by references was evidence not a web page quoting the bible. I understand the bible makes references to giants ( Nephilim), but the bible is not a science or history book.
If you think you have some compelling evidence for 36 ft tall humans living “within” the earth then please share.

"The point now is how do we work together to achieve important goals. And one such goal is a democracy in Germany." ”George W. Bush, D.C., May 5, 2006

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nyenye
Inactive Member


Message 183 of 352 (332128)
07-16-2006 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by MUTTY6969
07-16-2006 1:14 AM


Re: giant
I've heard reports, thought it was interesting, the bible claimed that they lived within the earth, if ya read? Government covers a lot of it up...honestly lol. Think about it, if these beings are proved to live to a certain time as the bible states, it would create havok in many religions... even though giants are noted throughout history

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 Message 182 by MUTTY6969, posted 07-16-2006 1:14 AM MUTTY6969 has replied

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MUTTY6969
Member (Idle past 6190 days)
Posts: 65
From: ARIZONA
Joined: 05-20-2006


Message 184 of 352 (332131)
07-16-2006 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by nyenye
07-16-2006 1:17 AM


Re: giant
Still don’t see any evidence . the bible is NOT a science book there for irrelevant in a science debate forum. I think some outside references to these giants would be helpful, and conspiracy theories don’t hold much water either.

"The point now is how do we work together to achieve important goals. And one such goal is a democracy in Germany." ”George W. Bush, D.C., May 5, 2006

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John Williams
Member (Idle past 4998 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 185 of 352 (332268)
07-16-2006 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by nyenye
07-15-2006 5:06 AM


Re: giant
8-36 ft tall giants?
Scholars and scientists even before the 19th century often treated such statures with scepticism and doubt, though some like Buffon reached loose conclusions that men as tall as 15ft may have existed, he was the minority.
The current and long held scholarly and scientific opinion is that there is no credible evidence that any person has surpassed 10 ft in stature, and only a handful of modern medical records reveal evidence that humans may reach a legit 9ft in rare cases.
Overwhelmingly, the many reports of 8,9,10, even 12 ft tall people in ancient eras have almost certainly been due to exaggerations of as much as 1 to 3 ft/cubits in excess of their actual ht. (Similar to world wrestling entertainment which bills it's giants like Andre or Gonzales up to 6-8 inches in excess of their true height).
Ancient peoples in general were often averaging around 5 1/2 ft for males, and they were 2-4 inches shorter than most modern industrialized societies. A 7ft 5, 300+ lb NBA Center such as Pavel Podkolzine, would probably have seemed like a giant 'six cubits tall'(8-9ft), compared to the avg. 5'5 Minoan men from Crete.
As for governments finding existence of giants all around the world and hiding the evidence, I'd really like some proof of this. I've researched a number of old 'giant' stories, and it seems that skeletons allegedly 8 or 9 ft tall found in Ohio/Penn burial mounds, though generally not complete fabrications, often were exaggerated after retellings of the story, and while it's true that there were some 6 1/2 to 7ft Adena and Susquehanna skeletons found in the 1800's, and maybe even a few guys approaching 8ft, there was never a race of giants that the government is trying to hide. At most, some extreme ancient tribal variants in stature, but not a complete world wide race.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 186 of 352 (332316)
07-16-2006 7:28 PM


Dating the books of the OT
Pity Spin and Arach never continued this thread as it was on the way to becoming quite interesting. We tend to accept dates generally without exploring whether they fit into the scheme of things. Arach,(or Spin if he is around),care to date the Emendations of the Sopherim?

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 187 of 352 (332321)
07-16-2006 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Nighttrain
07-16-2006 7:28 PM


Re: Dating the books of the OT
Arach,(or Spin if he is around),care to date the Emendations of the Sopherim?
seferim?
most of the emendations we're familiar with come from the masoretic text. i don't think it can be established that they existed any earlier -- they were likely added along with vowel points, spaces, divisions, and cantilation marks as part of the overall "improvement" of the text. it fits the masoretic style of not changing the text as written (kotev) but adding notes regarding how the text is read (qore).
[edit] it's also a tad off-topic here. this thread is kind of redundant anyways. i think there's another more recent thread that ludo started, before this one was bumped by a new member
Edited by arachnophilia, : typo


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 Message 186 by Nighttrain, posted 07-16-2006 7:28 PM Nighttrain has replied

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 188 of 352 (332340)
07-16-2006 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by arachnophilia
07-16-2006 7:34 PM


Re: Dating the books of the OT
(Testing the admins` patience a little further )
The Massorites were a group of Jewish scholars who copied and handed down the text of the Hebrew Scriptures. However, they themselves did not make the alterations to the text, rather they merely passed on what had been handed down to them by the Sopherim (Soph-ehr-eem Scribes). E. W. Bullinger, in Appendix #30, p. 31, of The Companion Bible, makes the following observation about the relationship between the Sopherim and the Massorites.
"The Text itself had been fixed before the Massorites were put in charge of it. This had been the work of the Sopherim (from saphar, to count, or number). Their work, under Ezra and Nehemiah, was to set the Text in order after the return from Babylon; and we read of it in Neh. 8.8 (cp. Ezra 7.6,11). The men of ”the Great Synagogue’ completed the work. This work lasted about 110 years, from Nehemiah to Simon the first, 410-300 B.C.
"The Sopherim were the authorized revisers of the Sacred Text; and, their work being completed, the Massorites were the authorized custodians of it. Their work was to preserve it. The Massorah is called ”A Fence to the Scriptures,’ because it locked all words and letters in their places. ..."
from http://www.geocities.com/Hebrew_Roots/html/hr-2-3-02.html
Most sites I`ve visited tend to date the Emendations to post-Ezra.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 189 of 352 (332354)
07-16-2006 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Nighttrain
07-16-2006 8:39 PM


Re: Dating the books of the OT
interesting, i'm not totally sure about that. ezra and his scribes are more the stuff of tradition and mythology than anything else -- the only hebrew text we have prior to the masoretic are the dss. i don't know off-hand if the dss have emendations.
The Massorites were a group of Jewish scholars who copied and handed down the text of the Hebrew Scriptures. However, they themselves did not make the alterations to the text,
well, no, they didn't. but vowel points, cantilation marks, and emendations are not alterations to the text. they're the equivalent of footnotes.


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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 190 of 352 (336439)
07-29-2006 7:00 PM


We already know that enormous humans have lived before. As far as mythology is concerned, I believe that there is sometimes a measure of truth in it, but that its been greatly embellished by certain individuals. One such, is Cyclops. But there really is a rare condition that causes this abnormality. Could it have been prevelant at one point in time? Maybe. But we do at least know that it is geneticaly possible.
Is This Photo of Cyclopes, a Kitten with a Single Eye, Real? | Snopes.com

“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
-1st Peter 3:15

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John Williams
Member (Idle past 4998 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 191 of 352 (337396)
08-02-2006 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Hyroglyphx
07-29-2006 7:00 PM


Re:
The Greek legends of Cyclopes may partially have originated from ancient fossil discoveries of prehistoric dwarf elephant remains which to an untrained eye can resemble giant human skulls with one eye socket.
Author Adrianne Mayor has written some great books about Ancient Fossil discoveries in the Old and New world and how these may have been a component to ancient myths.

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Head Eagle
Inactive Member


Message 192 of 352 (342147)
08-21-2006 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by John Williams
08-06-2004 1:59 AM


Biblical Inneracy or.....
John,
Since they left the giants issue, I'd like to provide you with a "concrete" evidence of my own finding.
At the Paluxy River near Glen Rose, Texas, the river bed is made up of several layers of limestone which have many tracks of different dinosaur tracks. In the same layers of these are tracks of what a podiatrist has qualified as human. Most of these are in the range of 10 to 13 inches in length and the width is superior to most modern feet. Nearby, I have walked in the tracks of one individual whose print was 23" long. We have a photo of our 10 year old son's foot next to this track. This is not from a book. This is from an eye witness, me and my family. Nearby, just down river is the Creation Evidence Museum. They have excavated a female skeleton of around 7 feet in height as well as a few fossilized dinos. They are on the web.
As you can tell, this presents many problems for several disciplines. I would like to ask you, as an amateur anthropologist, if you can find a reputable medical source who can tell how tall this person with the 23" length foot print would have been. This person was not the norm. Most other of these tracks are smaller.
As per the topic, this would seem to indicate that the "giants" were not just limited to the old world.

Lan

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Replies to this message:
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anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 193 of 352 (342229)
08-22-2006 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by Head Eagle
08-21-2006 8:24 PM


Palauxy River Tracks
As you can tell, this presents many problems for several disciplines.
Especially Young Earth Creationists as you can readily see from the following:
Arguments to Avoid Topic | Answers in Genesis
The Institute for Creation Research
Sometimes the false prophets have their own carnival tent. You may want to consider the damage you are doing to your cause when naively accepting as absolute truth claims from hucksters that your fellow creationists are running away from as though the very hounds of hell were nipping at their ankles.

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Head Eagle
Inactive Member


Message 194 of 352 (342375)
08-22-2006 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by anglagard
08-22-2006 1:15 AM


Palauxy River Tracks
I don't remember mentioning any source except the museum near the sites we explored. I didn't mention any of their views. I just used my own eyes, hands, and my son's feet to explore what we found in the limestone river bed. If there hadn't been any study done on these sites, I still could have found the human tracks in the layers along side the dinos. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell a human and dino print in stone. I would love to have been the first to spot these but Glen Rose history said some were cut out of the riverbed back in the early 1900s.
I believe I was the first to see a newly uncovered hand print in a layer with a plant eater track a few feet away. This print was of a child that now-adays would be no older than five. It was perfect. This was in the Dinosaur Valley State Park and so any exploration nearby for other signs would have been denied. No, I didn't take a picture. No, I didn't make a cast. I only have my and my family's word that the print is there. No, I haven't been back to try to verify. Someday.
By the way, have you been there?

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 195 of 352 (342426)
08-22-2006 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Head Eagle
08-22-2006 12:13 PM


Re: Palauxy River Tracks
Been there and wandered all over the area many times long ago as well. Saw no, zero, nada, zilch, none, nyet, signs of dino, human interaction. It seems it is just another way for the Biblical Creationist Ministry to get money from the gullible. Really sad and as a Christian I deplore it.
As for the alleged museum, it is as big a joke as Dr. Dino and yet another embarsassment to all Christianity.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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