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Author Topic:   Critique of Ann Coulter's The Church of Liberalism: Godless
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 91 of 298 (332245)
07-16-2006 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by crashfrog
07-16-2006 4:14 PM


The effects of pregnancy
I think we're all wondering if you even know what pregnancy actually entails. You don't seem to give that impression in your posts.
Um, yes, I understand the effects of pregnancy quite well. I take it, however, that you understand the effects are purely a natural occurance that is an integral part of evolution. Therefore, there is no right or wrong thing about pregnancy. It just is.
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
-1st Peter 3:15

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by crashfrog, posted 07-16-2006 4:14 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by crashfrog, posted 07-16-2006 4:59 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 298 (332247)
07-16-2006 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Coragyps
07-16-2006 2:46 PM


Re: How Liberal's react to Ann
And there are ten times that figure wanting to adopt? There are about 1.3 million abortions annually in the US, y'know. (88% of them prior to 12 weeks' fetal age, before you bring up "suffering" again.)
Yes, that only further invalidates Brenna's argument about phantom families wanting to adopt. There are alot of children who need parental love. If only people would have listened to God, aye.
And i haven't brought up suffering yet.
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
-1st Peter 3:15

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Coragyps, posted 07-16-2006 2:46 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 93 of 298 (332251)
07-16-2006 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Hyroglyphx
07-16-2006 4:46 PM


Re: The effects of pregnancy
Um, yes, I understand the effects of pregnancy quite well.
Really? Worldwide, where does it rank as a cause of death among women? Particularly women in their early teens and twenties?
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-16-2006 4:46 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 94 of 298 (332252)
07-16-2006 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Hyroglyphx
07-16-2006 2:59 PM


Re: How Liberal's react to Ann
If abortion isn't murder, then someone killing a pregnant woman couldn't possibly be charged with a double-homicide. And yet, that is the case.
i'm very opposed to those laws.
Lastly, if children are, as you lovingly refer to them, "parasite," then you yourself, me, everyone on EvC, and everyone on the planet, past, present and future, are also parasites.
no. i am not a parasite. i do not depend on my mother for my livelihood.
In which case, why do some "parasites" get to live and others get to be disembodied by having their limbs ripped apart or burned to death by a high concentration of saline?
because some people want parasites.
I'm beginning to wonder if you even know what abortion actually entails.
it entails the fact that the government doesn't mandate my healthcare.
most abortions happen within the first few months and simply involve making the uterus un-sticky so the little polyp of anguish just falls off. late term abortions are rare. these horror stories you speak of are even more rare. when you know the truth, and the truth is not a butcher shop, it's not quite so scary. i had a friend have an abortion a couple years ago. standard, routine abortion. she was less than two months pregnant and she took some pills and had a standard dnc. btw, a dnc is a common medical procedure also done on non-pregnant women any time the uterus needs to be cleaned out. it happens pretty often. my mom had one after my brother was born because there was some leftover tissue and junk.
you want some abortion truth? how about asking these pro-lifers why they get abortions for their teenage daughters. how about actually bothering to think for an instant about how terrifying it might be if your health would be endangered by getting pregnant. imagine for a second that life isn't a happy little bowl of chrst-ee-ohs and that people have real problems and they take responsibility and fix those problems.
oh you don't have enough money to adopt a kid? how about the woman who doesn't have enough money to raise the disabled kid she might have? what about the family who lives in a rural community who is pregnant with a kid who will have to live full time in a first class hospital? what about the woman who just got her life straightened out, just got off the drugs, just got into a job training program and gets raped? what about the people who don't live in happy little cookie-cutter daydream suburban christian homes who actually have real life problems instead of muslim bogey men and murderous abortion doctors?
the law protects the rest of us from your daydream reality.
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-16-2006 2:59 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by nator, posted 07-16-2006 6:43 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 95 of 298 (332255)
07-16-2006 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Hyroglyphx
07-16-2006 4:50 PM


Re: How Liberal's react to Ann
people want their own happy, healthy, white newborns. just like lithoid said. and if they can't have their own, they'd rather go to russia to get someone else's happy, healthy, white newborn than even think about adopting the thousands of older children, children with emotional scarring, children with health problems, children with disabilities, children who have been abused, raped, drugged, starved, what have you.
imagine how full the child welfare system would be if there weren't a million abortions a year.
i know for scientific fact and from personal experience the kind of horrible, irreparable damage abandoning a child can do to him. even if you abandon that child in the kindest, gentlest way possible. if i ever get pregnant and i am entirely unable to care for my child, i would never risk the kind of hell that is the american child welfare system for it. i would decide very early, keep or abort. because no child deserves the kind of mind shattering that comes with knowing that someone didn't want you.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by crashfrog, posted 07-16-2006 5:20 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 96 of 298 (332257)
07-16-2006 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by macaroniandcheese
07-16-2006 5:14 PM


Re: How Liberal's react to Ann
and if they can't have their own, they'd rather go to russia to get someone else's happy, healthy, white newborn than even think about adopting the thousands of older children, children with emotional scarring, children with health problems, children with disabilities, children who have been abused, raped, drugged, starved, what have you.
Well, yeah. Who wants a broken kid? Kids are hard as hell to raise in the first place. Who would want to add all the hassle of dealing with mental retardation, autism, physical disability, what have you?
If you're going to pick a kid, instead of sticking with what fate would provide you with, why would you pick a broken one?
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-16-2006 5:14 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 97 of 298 (332260)
07-16-2006 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Lithodid-Man
07-16-2006 4:34 PM


Re: Adoption
Ahhh, you beat me to it, LM.
I used to volunteer at Christmas festivals for children waiting to be adopted and living in group homes. I can tell you that every year less than 10% of the kids there were physically healthy, white children and the majority of that 10% had some form of behavioral problem. The only white infant I ever saw there was a baby boy who had been shaken so violently that his head had swelled to 3 times the normal size. The rest were teenagers, black, Latino, Native or physically/mentally disabled. Or they had AIDS. The saddest part was that for 5 years pretty much the same kids returned to receive their presents and face paintings and 2 minutes on Santa's lap.
So, yes, N_J, there are many people waiting in line to adopt, but those that are waiting more than likely are waiting for a healthy Caucasian newborn, NOT an AIDS baby, NOT a crack baby, NOT a child with anger issues, NOT a baby of any minority and most definitely NOT a teenager.
I also find it interesting that I can receive $8000 for some of my ova and some couples will pay WAY more than that through a private arrangement for the eggs of a woman who meets their specific criteria. Of course, I do not have statistics of how many of these couples are anti-abortion, but I'm willing to bet that it is similar to the general population.
And AMEN, LM, for bringing up the issue of social services.
Yes, we want you to have your baby, but no one will adopt it and I know you don't want it to languish for years in a group home, so your only choice is to raise it yourself, but you won't get any kind of help. You can't work because you can't afford childcare and food at the same time, but you can't get welfare, either. If your child gets sick, you have to be in debt for the rest of your life in order to pay the medical bills and we don't have a low-cost preventive care system either so you'll have to wait until s/he gets REALLY sick because you didnt know that a problem was developing. The school system is underfunded and we no longer have free/reduced lunch programs so your kid will probably go hungry during school because we got rid of subsidized housing and rent-controls so all your money will go to rent and you will still be behind even tho you could finally get a job at $5.15 an hour now that your kid is in school. But, the minimum wage will be a thing of the past very soon because it makes Big Businesses earn $5 billion a year profits instead of $6 billion and corporations are people, too! Your baby will probably have a baby in its teenage years, too, because our abstinence programs in the schools don't seem to be working too well, but we can't go back to teaching about "safer sex" because it isn't in line with our Christian principles. And the cycle will repeat. You and your baby have fun now!
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 98 of 298 (332283)
07-16-2006 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by crashfrog
07-16-2006 5:20 PM


Re: How Liberal's react to Ann
broken kids need love more than un-broken kids.
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 99 of 298 (332291)
07-16-2006 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by macaroniandcheese
07-16-2006 5:02 PM


Re: How Liberal's react to Ann
quote:
imagine for a second that life isn't a happy little bowl of christ-ee-ohs
ROTFLMAO!!!
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-16-2006 5:02 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 100 of 298 (332356)
07-16-2006 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Hyroglyphx
07-16-2006 11:27 AM


Re: Just finished her book
The only one who has a problem with Ann are those out to malign her. What will they think of next? Aside from the obvious, which is, conjecure is baseless without the actual text that was plagiarized. Do you have any links that actually give any specifics?
it's neither conjecture, nor baseless. seriously, it's made the news, even. read the links in the post i directed you to.
So far, all I saw on those blogs, those blogs of a leftists persuasion, claim that she plagiarized.
"the right-wing professor" is leftist?
But I didn't see any specifics.
you'll have to dig back in the archives a little. here is a list of quite a few.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-16-2006 11:27 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 101 of 298 (332381)
07-16-2006 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by nator
07-16-2006 6:43 PM


Re: How Liberal's react to Ann
they taste like bread and wine and go down a little thorny.
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 298 (332487)
07-17-2006 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Lithodid-Man
07-16-2006 4:34 PM


Re: Adoption
As an adopted child myself and having strongly considered adopting a child I have looked at these issues alot. The reality is that if a couple wants a white newborn baby they pay through the nose, get investigated from all angles, etc. etc. If a couple wants a black baby or a native baby (especially an older child for both) they need to show they are breathing human beings and can even get paid to adopt. I know several couples (all fundamentalist Christian, btw, possibly not relevant but who knows...) who paid enormous sums of money to adopt white babies from Russia or other Eastern European countries. It really pisses me off.
Yeah, I know what you're saying. Every child, white, black, green, purple or orange need parental love. Unfortunately, even in spite of some people's good intentions, some babies never get adopted based on their skin color. What I've noticed is that prospective parents would like to adopt a child that would look as close in relation to them as possible. So, for instance, if the parents are caucasian, typically, they're going to want a baby that coincides. And that probably exists because of the stigma, or percieved stigma of not being able to concieve. But this is certainly not the rule. I know of quite a few people who adopt just to save lives.
True story -When we found out we were going to have a baby, it was when I had just started grad school in Louisiana and we were absolutely flat broke. We found a clinic that advertised "free exams and ultrasounds for pregnant women" and went. As it turns out it was a pro-life sponsered clinic. My wife started hearing a lecture on the horrors of abortion (I was excluded). When she interrupted and said she was not even thinking about abortion and wouldn't adopt out our child we were hustled out of there quicker than snot with only a reference to how much we cost them by wasting their time. Take home message is: despite the evidence for the overall health benefits for both mother and child with good prenatal care the pro-life movement pretty much could care less what happens to a child once the decision to go full term occurs.
You couldn't possibly believe that. Whether or not your story was accurate or whether you and your girlfriend misunderstood what was going is inconsequential to the ridiculous claim you made. If pro-lifers don't care about the child, then why go through all that effort? Don't really care about the child?
Pretty much every so-called pro-lifer out there is also against social services, medicaid, family leave act, subsidized daycare, housing assistance, etc. etc. etc. IOW pretty much everything that actually benefits children.
Here's what benefits children...... not being ripped from limb to limb. All of what you listed is perfectly fine, so long as its not abused by either the state or the individual recieving benefits.
But please, stop detracting from the real argument. The real argument isn't asking white parents why they adopt white kids. The issue isn't whether or not a Neo-conservative will approve subsidized daycare. The issue is that babies are being killed. I mean, you can't understand that? Its just shocking to me that anyone can either be that misinformed about what abortion actually entails or that they are just indifferent to it.
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
-1st Peter 3:15

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Lithodid-Man, posted 07-16-2006 4:34 PM Lithodid-Man has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 298 (332496)
07-17-2006 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Discreet Label
07-16-2006 4:45 PM


Re: How Liberal's react to Ann
Dunno what you are talking about but most abortions are taken care of via vacuum tube very early on. Or via emergency contraception when the egg has barely hit the wall. Call it a forced early miscarriage, or a miscarriage aided by vacuum. So if you are talking about abortion you are talking about a very small number of cases and that you are even multiplying to make seem like every aboriton is taken care of that way. You are talking like the news talks about murders, 18% decresase in homicide and coverage of murder goes up by about 500%, the hell is that? Its as if the only thing you hear is abortion via partial birth or abortion via, c-section? Probably must be selective hearing.
Okay, first of all, there is no justification. None. You can speak as flippantly about the topic as you want, but it won't exonerate you. Aside from which, you're misinformed. Most women aren't even aware that they are pregnant until 2 months, unless they suspect the condom broke or whatever other method they think might have failed. Women can miss their period do to a change in diet, stressors, increased exercise, etc. At 12 weeks a fetus has fully developed their body. After 12 weeks nothing new develops, he/she just grows bigger and stronger.
I assume this the argument of cognizance, meaning, some people feel justified in aborting babies because they don't think they can "feel" pain... (as if that justifies the act). If I shot you in the head while you slept, you'd feel nothing, but I'd still be a murderer. And to be sure of all of this:
I want you to watch this video of an ultrasound that elucidates my point. The child in the womb dies from the succion method. Notice that when the foreign body enters the womb, the babies heart rate quickens and the baby tries to evade the source by flailing about in the womb. This is a classic example of self-preservation. Therefore, the child "knows", i.e, they're "aware" that its being attacked. And as the succion is tearing pieces away, the baby with a gaping mouth appears to be screaming in pain.
Do yourself a favor and watch the entire video. Its a five part series.
http://www.silentscream.org/video1.htm
Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : typo
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
-1st Peter 3:15

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Discreet Label, posted 07-16-2006 4:45 PM Discreet Label has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 104 of 298 (332498)
07-17-2006 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by crashfrog
07-16-2006 4:59 PM


Re: The effects of pregnancy
Really? Worldwide, where does it rank as a cause of death among women? Particularly women in their early teens and twenties?
What a pathetic argument coming from an evolutionist. You do realize that pregnancy is a natural part of life, don't you? All mammals, including you, got your start in just this way. And pregnancy is not the leading cause of death in women worldwide. And I defy you to back it up. But again, even it were, according to evolution that would be a natural occurance. There would be no right or no wrong in it. It would just, be.
Edited by AdminAsgara, : add off topic gif - The Queen

“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
-1st Peter 3:15

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by crashfrog, posted 07-16-2006 4:59 PM crashfrog has not replied

AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 105 of 298 (332503)
07-17-2006 10:25 AM


OFF TOPIC
I believe the topic of this thread is a critique of Ann Coulter's book...NOT a debate on abortion and pregnancy.
closing this for an hour or so hoping that everyone sees this warning.
AbE
Notice how many msgs on this page do NOT have an off topic warning.
Edited by AdminAsgara, : No reason given.

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