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Author Topic:   Hovind busted, finally
Chief Infidel
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 308 (332718)
07-17-2006 10:56 PM


Indictment?
Does anyone have a link for the actual indictment?

I'd love to read it and I don't think smokinggun will be covering this one.

Someone on another forum suggested that I visit http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/ but I was unable to locate Hovind's indictment there.


Replies to this message:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 2194 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 47 of 308 (332771)
07-18-2006 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by crashfrog
07-15-2006 7:48 PM


Re: Oh, they're so cute!
Oh, they're so cute!

Well, having seen that recent photo, I'd said one is ;) woof woof :p

errr, nothing dear, just talking on EvC

better go :o

Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.


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Percy
Member
Posts: 19844
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 48 of 308 (332799)
07-18-2006 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Chief Infidel
07-17-2006 10:56 PM


Re: Indictment?
You may have already seen this link that I posted last week:

http://www.ustaxcourt.gov/InOpHistoric/Hovind.TCM.WPD.pdf

I don't think this is being treated as a criminal matter at this time, so I don't think there's an indictment. Maybe they call it a complaint for civil matters.

Anyway, if you read the Background section that begins on page 2 it gives a fairly clear description of the IRS complaint.

--Percy


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Modulous
Member (Idle past 655 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 49 of 308 (332802)
07-18-2006 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Percy
07-18-2006 8:24 AM


Re: Indictment?
I don't think there's an indictment

from the latest news:

quote:
The indictment unsealed last week has three parts:

[1]Kent Hovind is accused of failing to pay $473,818 in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes for employees of his Creation Science Ministry between March 31, 2001, and Jan. 31, 2004.
...
The indictment alleges Hovind paid his employees in cash and called them "missionaries" to avoid paying payroll and FICA taxes.

[2]The Hovinds both are charged with 44 counts of structuring financial transactions to avoid reporting requirements.

[3]Kent Hovind also is charged with impeding an IRS investigation in several ways, including filing frivolous lawsuits and false complaints against the IRS.



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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5512
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 50 of 308 (332835)
07-18-2006 9:54 AM


This just in:
Hovind's attorney, Assistant Public Defender Kafahni Nkrumah, told U.S. Magistrate Judge Miles Davis at a hearing Monday that his client did not want to enter a plea because he does not believe the United States, the Internal Revenue Service and the U.S. Attorney's Office "have jurisdiction in this matter."

When pressed by Davis to enter a plea of either guilty or not guilty, Hovind said he wished to enter a plea of "subornation of false muster."

When asked where he lived, Kent Hovind replied, "I live in the church of Jesus Christ, which is located all over the world. I have no residence."

He called his home on Cummings Road, which backs Dinosaur Adventure Land, a "church parish."

I wish I were in Pensacola to go listen.....


Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 529 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 51 of 308 (332841)
07-18-2006 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Coragyps
07-18-2006 9:54 AM


classic!

"subornation of false muster."

what does that even MEAN?


אָרַח

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KChurbuck
Junior Member (Idle past 5004 days)
Posts: 2
From: Nashua, NH
Joined: 07-03-2006


Message 52 of 308 (332936)
07-18-2006 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Percy
07-14-2006 8:49 AM


My my. It seems lurking and seeing the "lay of the land" might be disapproved :-).

I was interested in the Kent Hovind problems. I had heard the name but did not know what he really did. I have since educated myself somewhat.

It seems that he is another insicere huckster that got greedy and overreached.

But that is a just a first pass opinion.

- Ken -


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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2106
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 53 of 308 (332938)
07-18-2006 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Coragyps
07-18-2006 9:54 AM


Assistant Public Defender Kafahni Nkrumah

Oh the poor public defender, imagine having Hovind dropped on you as a client.


Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

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MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 4905 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 54 of 308 (333004)
07-18-2006 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by arachnophilia
07-18-2006 10:27 AM


classic!

"subornation of false muster."

what does that even MEAN?

I'm no weasel lawyer but as best as I can work out subornation is inducing someone to commit an illegal act (usually perjury in legal usage) and false muster is a military term that basically means falsifying a roll call.

I think Hovind is claiming he's being induced to lie about who he is or where he lives or something like that. Perhaps entering a plea before a court he doesn't recognise is the problem.

Anybody on the board going to 'fess up to being a lawyer and tell us what the real scoop is?

Google only threw up one hit for 'Subornation of False Muster'.

Interestingly it's another religous wacko who thinks the US legal system doesn't have jurisdiction over him, perhaps because he's a 'citizen of heaven' and not a citizen of the US. You couldn't make it up :)


Oops! Wrong Planet

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2479 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 55 of 308 (333007)
07-18-2006 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Coragyps
07-18-2006 9:54 AM


i'm glad i'm not. i don't wanna drive through looking at all the church signs saying some bullshit about a atheist-evolutionist conspiracy blah blah blah.

i realized when i was there last... there's way too much jesus in that town.


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 529 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 56 of 308 (333019)
07-18-2006 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by KChurbuck
07-18-2006 2:15 PM


hi, welcome to evc.

But that is a just a first pass opinion.

keep looking, it only gets better from there. i don't think he's a huckster -- he doesn't push the SALE as much as some folks *coughwyattcough*

i think he more than likely genuinely believes the nonsense he puts forwards.


אָרַח

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 529 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 57 of 308 (333025)
07-18-2006 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by MangyTiger
07-18-2006 5:00 PM


I'm no weasel lawyer but as best as I can work out subornation is inducing someone to commit an illegal act (usually perjury in legal usage) and false muster is a military term that basically means falsifying a roll call.

I think Hovind is claiming he's being induced to lie about who he is or where he lives or something like that

maybe i'm just stupid, but i still don't get it. i mean, i looked up the terms, too. it's just a phrase that hurts my brain, like something ray or brad would come up with. it goes in one ear, my brain goes "squish" and it comes out the other relatively unharmed.

is he claiming that he's being forced to show up in court illegally? like, saying the court does not have jurisdiction? that's my guess, based on the case you linked to.

nterestingly it's another religous wacko who thinks the US legal system doesn't have jurisdiction over him, perhaps because he's a 'citizen of heaven' and not a citizen of the US. You couldn't make it up

gotta be correlation.


אָרַח

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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3149
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 58 of 308 (333029)
07-18-2006 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by KChurbuck
07-18-2006 2:15 PM


I suspect if you researched him even more, you would find he has quite the cult following, and is quite the con artist.

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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5512
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 59 of 308 (333038)
07-18-2006 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by arachnophilia
07-18-2006 10:27 AM


I think I had subornation of something back in '68, but it wasn't penicillin resistant and cleared right up with a couple of shots. But maybe that wasn't the name of it.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 5611
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 60 of 308 (333055)
07-18-2006 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by arachnophilia
07-18-2006 5:36 PM


is he claiming that he's being forced to show up in court illegally? like, saying the court does not have jurisdiction? that's my guess, based on the case you linked to.

I think you've got it. I think he is saying that he is being forced to act like a citizen of the USA, when he is really a citizen of heaven.

Maybe INS should charge him with being an illegal immigrant. It would be interesting to see how he played that one :laugh:


Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

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