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Author Topic:   Hovind busted, finally
Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 61 of 308 (333057)
07-18-2006 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Coragyps
07-18-2006 9:54 AM


Something I know!
The last time I heard anyone use the term "False Muster" it was my brother describing a case between a 'tax patriot' and the State. He said his friend was released because he accused the court of false muster. This concept (ridiculous!) is that all US courts are actually military courts because of the gold fringe on the flag. So to appear in court as a civilian is against the law. I am nearly positive that this didn't really happen, but my brother loves to tell the David and Goliath story. If this is where Hovind is comming from he is scarier than I gave him credit for.

But that would explain the lack of jurisdiction. They (these tax patriots) believe all US courts are military and the IRS is a 'foregn power'. Be afraid, be very afraid!


Doctor Bashir: "Of all the stories you told me, which were true and which weren't?"
Elim Garak: "My dear Doctor, they're all true"
Doctor Bashir: "Even the lies?"
Elim Garak: "Especially the lies"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Coragyps, posted 07-18-2006 9:54 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 529 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 62 of 308 (333081)
07-18-2006 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by nwr
07-18-2006 6:25 PM


I think you've got it. I think he is saying that he is being forced to act like a citizen of the USA, when he is really a citizen of heaven.

Maybe INS should charge him with being an illegal immigrant. It would be interesting to see how he played that one

yeah, maybe they'd deport him back to heaven.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by nwr, posted 07-18-2006 6:25 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

lfen
Member (Idle past 3228 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 63 of 308 (333083)
07-18-2006 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by KChurbuck
07-18-2006 2:15 PM


It seems that he is another insicere huckster that got greedy and overreached.

I think you are very close. "insincere huckster" doesn't quite do personality disorders enough credit. These kinds of character disorders do tend to go out of control though and push things further and further and act out increasingly.

Welcome to EvC!

lfen


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Chief Infidel
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 308 (333091)
07-18-2006 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Lithodid-Man
07-18-2006 6:27 PM


I know something too
Subordination under false muster is gibberish. I spoke with a judge about it today and we both had a good laugh.

To Hovind's credit, it is possible that taxing a wage earner's income and depositing the money into a private bank (the federal reserve) is unconstitutional.

There have been several individuals who have forgone paying income tax then tried to fight the system and lost. But there are other ways to protest taxes aside from not filing. Anyway, the legallity of income taxes in this country is another issue and Hovind is very unlikely to prevail on the merits of any such claim.

Hovind knew the law (evidence of this are his 1996 legal troubles), and disobeyed it anyway. This goes to his arrogance and character.


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Replies to this message:
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 Message 66 by johnfolton, posted 07-19-2006 12:08 AM Chief Infidel has not yet responded
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Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 160 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 65 of 308 (333101)
07-18-2006 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Chief Infidel
07-18-2006 8:55 PM


Re: I know something too
After a long period of foot-dragging, the Feds in recent years have come down hard on tax...patriots/deniers/wing-nuts.

If Hovind doesn't start trying to cut a deal soon, he'll do time.


God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ‘Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’
--Ann Coulter, Fox-TV: Hannity & Colmes, 20 Jun 01

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4142 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 66 of 308 (333155)
07-19-2006 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Chief Infidel
07-18-2006 8:55 PM


Christian Churches
Anyone (even Hovind) can start a church mission outreach and automatically be exempt from the payment to the IRS. The Hovind Church Ministry (wtf) is the IRS attacking his ministries purse strings. Churches have always been exempt from IRS since the constitution was written. Its just another example of activist liberal judges subverting the constitution. ;)

resource article:

The church issue is actually quite simple. Anyone can start a church. Churches are automatically exempt from the payment of federal income tax on their contributions and passive investment income. (See Internal Revenue Code Sections 501(c)(3) and 508(a)).

Your church does not have to be incorporated but you should have at least three members.

Once your church is organized, it can ordain and hire a pastor. The pastor can receive compensation, which is specifically excludable from gross income under Internal Revenue Code Section 107. Furthermore, the pastor can receive paid professional expenses.

Anyone can donate up to 50 percent of their adjusted gross income and take a corresponding deduction on their tax return.

The Internal Revenue Service does not require a church to register with it, but a church must get an Employer ID Number if it wishes to maintain a domestic bank account.

Your church should have regular board of director meetings and the board must approve all expenditures. It is also recommended that you have a monthly newsletter and that you advertise your meetings locally. The minister you ordain can perform the sacraments of your church such as weddings, etc.

Your church can own property and vehicles for the furtherance of its religious purpose. For example, many churches not only own buildings for religious worship but they also own religious retreat centers. Most of this property is also exempt from property tax under state law. Most states also allow sales tax exemption to churches.

http://www.anti-irs.com/churchletter.htm

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 529 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 67 of 308 (333160)
07-19-2006 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Chief Infidel
07-18-2006 8:55 PM


Re: I know something too
Subordination under false muster is gibberish. I spoke with a judge about it today and we both had a good laugh.

i suspected as much. it SOUNDS like gibberish.

There have been several individuals who have forgone paying income tax then tried to fight the system and lost.

death. taxes. deal with it.


אָרַח

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 529 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 68 of 308 (333163)
07-19-2006 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by johnfolton
07-19-2006 12:08 AM


Re: Christian Churches
The church issue is actually quite simple. Anyone can start a church. Churches are automatically exempt from the payment of federal income tax on their contributions and passive investment income. (See Internal Revenue Code Sections 501(c)(3) and 508(a)).

do churches have to file 501(c)(3)'s? or does "automatic" mean they don't?

if they do, i see the problem. hovind didn't think he had to do ANY paperworks -- like taking out building permits and whatnot.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by johnfolton, posted 07-19-2006 12:56 AM arachnophilia has responded

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4142 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 69 of 308 (333171)
07-19-2006 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by arachnophilia
07-19-2006 12:20 AM


Re: Christian Churches
No, Churches need not apply from the IRS code 508(c)(1)(a) its not mandatory in respect to Churches.

(1) Mandatory exceptions. Subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply to—
(A) churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches.

resource article:

Churches Need Not Apply

In order to be considered for tax-exempt status by the IRS an organization must fill out and submit IRS Form 1023 and 1024. However, note what the IRS says regarding churches and church ministries, in Publication 557:

Some organizations are not required to file Form 1023. These include:
Churches, interchurch organizations of local units of a church, conventions or associations of churches, or integrated auxiliaries of a church, such as a men’s or women’s organization, religious school, mission society, or youth group. These organizations are exempt automatically if they meet the requirements of section 501(c)(3).

Churches Are “Automatically Tax-Exempt”
According to IRS Code § 508(c)(1)(A):

Special rules with respect to section 501(c)(3) organizations.
(a) New organizations must notify secretary that they are applying for recognition of section 501(c)(3) status.
(c) Exceptions.
(1) Mandatory exceptions. Subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply to—
(A) churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches.
This is referred to as the "mandatory exception" rule. Thus, we see from the IRS’ own publications, and the tax code, that it is completely unnecessary for any church to apply for tax-exempt status. In the IRS’ own words a church “is automatically tax-exempt.”

http://hushmoney.org/501c3-facts.htm


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 529 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 70 of 308 (333173)
07-19-2006 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by johnfolton
07-19-2006 12:56 AM


Re: Christian Churches
ok, so hovind might have a case?


אָרַח

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Percy
Member
Posts: 19844
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 71 of 308 (333178)
07-19-2006 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by johnfolton
07-19-2006 12:56 AM


Re: Christian Churches
Their tax-exempt status makes establishment of churches one of the most common strategies for tax evasion. For example, if you establish a church and claim the salary from your employer is actually a donation, the IRS will call this a sham and attempt to collect taxes. This example is, of course, a very obvious sham that could never succeed, but the tax evasion community has over time evolved more and more complex schemes designed to evade the tax man, and the IRS is charged with detecting such schemes and collecting the taxes owed.

This is from http://www.ustaxcourt.gov/InOpHistoric/Hovind.TCM.WPD.pdf (the respondent mentioned below is the IRS):

During an audit and a criminal tax investigation that began in the early spring of 2004, respondent concluded (1) that petitioner appeared to be using the referred-to trust documents as well as various nominees and sham entities for the purpose of concealing ownership and control of his activities and properties, and (2) that substantial revenue from the various activities with which petitioner was involved appeared to constitute income to petitioner personally.

Respondent also concluded that petitioner appeared to be planning to transfer property into the name of a nominee entity (a so-called “corporation sole”) and that this planned transfer, among other things, indicated a “willful and deliberate attempt [by petitioner] to conceal the receipt of taxable income and to evade federal income taxes.”

Hovind's advisor in tax matters is Glenn Stoll, "a known promoter of tax avoidance schemes." If all Hovind's revenue activities were church related he wouldn't need Stoll's tax avoidance schemes, but they're not.

--Percy


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Chief Infidel
Inactive Member


Message 72 of 308 (333179)
07-19-2006 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by johnfolton
07-19-2006 12:56 AM


Re: Christian Churches
Interesting. Thank you.

How does the IRS define a church?

If there is a clear IRS definition of church (I have not found one), do you think Hovind's CSE qualifies?

Is Hovind ordained? I do not believe he is, but does it matter?
(On a personal note, I was ordained online the other day and let me tell you, it changed my life!)

The IRS will no doubt find out just how much he has made on his sales of videos and other materials. What do you make of his sale of all that material and would that effect CSE's status as a church?

I am responding to an individual's post with these questions but if anyone else wants to jump in that is quite alright with me.


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 Message 69 by johnfolton, posted 07-19-2006 12:56 AM johnfolton has not yet responded

Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 3615 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 73 of 308 (333186)
07-19-2006 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by johnfolton
07-19-2006 12:56 AM


Re: Christian Churches
Trust me doing sneaky things around the IRS is a bad move. You do not want the IRS crawling all over you from everything to suspicious bank withdrawels (consistent and frequent withdrawels under officially notified values of 10000 dollars) to suspicious employee classifications. Its best to make larger withdrawels and just say you are doing it. Makes you look less guilty.

The government has nothing if not a great deal of power if you get noticed, your life will become misearable. Filling the requisite paper work is very important.

I mean Lockheed Martin was beaten to a bloody pulp over their ethics and money problems, hell they made laws because of them and they are the largest defense contractor in the world, and they have 120,000 employees, imagine what happens when the government sledgehammers a single person.


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Modulous
Member (Idle past 655 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 74 of 308 (333216)
07-19-2006 6:46 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by arachnophilia
07-18-2006 5:28 PM


i don't think he's a huckster -- he doesn't push the SALE as much as some folks

He might not push it as much but pushing the sale whilst under indictment for fraud is damned impressive:

The sale

quote:
After the hearing, Kent Hovind declined to comment, other than to say reports that Dinosaur Land, which offers children's rides, is open.

"We had 1,000 visitors last week," he said.



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Modulous
Member (Idle past 655 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 75 of 308 (333224)
07-19-2006 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Lithodid-Man
07-18-2006 6:27 PM


Flags
If this is where Hovind is comming from he is scarier than I gave him credit for.

Sorry....

quote:

40.05[4](b) The Gold-Fringed Flag ("The American Maritime Flag of War") [FN13]
Various litigants, including tax protesters, argue that the placement in a court room of a gold-fringed American flag denotes: (1) admiralty jurisdiction; (2) suspension of constitutional governmental functions; and/or (3) martial law.

Litigants call the gold-fringed American flag the "maritime flag of war," and claim its display signifies "[d]eprivation of rights under color of law." McCann v. Greenway, 952 F.Supp. 647, 649 (W.D.Mo. 1997). They maintain that a court that flies a gold-fringed flag: (1) lacks jurisdiction over those coming before it; and (2) deprives the litigant of due process rights.

Not surprisingly, courts uniformly reject such claims. See Salman
v. Nevada, 104 F.Supp.2d 1262, 1266 (D.Nev. 2000) ("Plaintiff's argument that the gold fringe around an American flag in a courtroom designates admiralty jurisdiction is . . . wholly frivolous"); Schneider v. Schlaefer, 975 F.Supp. 1160, 1161-64 (E.D.Wis. 1997) (contention that court proceedings were conducted unconstitutionally because of flag form rejected; claims or defenses based upon preeminence of American "flag of peace" over all other flags frivolous and sanctionable); Hovind v.
Kelly, No. 3:96CV579/RV, 1997 WL 327100 (N.D.Fla. Mar. 17, 1997)


From Criminal Tax Manual 40.00 -- ILLEGAL TAX PROTESTERS. And yes, its the same Hovind.


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