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Author Topic:   Critique of Ann Coulter's The Church of Liberalism: Godless
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 166 of 298 (333463)
07-19-2006 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Nighttrain
07-19-2006 9:15 AM


Re: Let's try this again
Holy crap, I had no idea what a rack of skin and bones she is.
It's easy to see that she isn't actually fit, just really too thin, because she has no muscle tone or definition at all.
I wonder if she takes drugs to stay that thin or if she has an eating disorder?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 167 of 298 (333464)
07-19-2006 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Hyroglyphx
07-19-2006 12:32 PM


Re: Let's try this again
quote:
The fact that she has you so riled up allows you to play yourself right into her hands. And yes, there is satire all throughout all of her books. Its called being witty, and liberal pundits do it all the time. I can only assume that it no longer becomes satire if you just so happen to disagree with the message.
What she says isn't witty. It's just mean and nasty and tasteless and cruel.
I mean, she called 9/11 widows "witches and harpies".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-19-2006 12:32 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 168 of 298 (333466)
07-19-2006 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Hyroglyphx
07-19-2006 1:37 PM


Re: Let's try this again
So is Ann.
No, she's not. Look, if you want to assert that, you actually have to provide some evidence.
Yup, that sounds about right.
About right what? What interview has there ever been with Ann Coulter where she says she's just kidding, and that her detractors can't take a joke?
Be specific, please. A transcript would be helpful.
Do I really want all the people from the New York Times dead, or did I just say that because its satirical?
I don't know. But tell me this - how many times would I have to ask you if you were serious, and you replied "yes, totally serious", before I was allowed to conclude that you were, in fact, serious?
You know, some people put their aborted fetuses on display
That's another nemesis_juggernaut "fact", I guess - that is, something that doesn't actually happen.
You're the go-to-guy to decide what is or what isn't satire.
Well, I am actually trained in the field of literary analysis, and in the recognition of different genres and techniques in writing.
How about you? What training in literature have you had? Any?
Enjoy your opinon and be thankful that you live in a country where that freedom of speech can be expressed.
Do you think Coulter feels that way? Can you cite specific evidence that she does?

This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 169 of 298 (333491)
07-19-2006 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Hyroglyphx
07-19-2006 1:37 PM


Satire
OK, here's the thing about Ann coulter and satire, juggs.
If she is engaging in satire, she is clearly satirizing the radical right.
That's what Stephen Colbert does. Everybody knows that Colbert isn't really a right-wing pundit. In fact, he's quite liberal, yet he portrays a very conservative right wing pundit on The Colbert Report in order to make fun of the policies and major players on the conservative right. He has often stated that one of the people he has modeled his character after is Bill O'Reilly, for example.
If Coulter were to actually be engaging in satire to make fun of the left, she would have to portray a far-left pundit, and pretend to espouse a far left position.
So, she isn't using satire.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-19-2006 1:37 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 170 of 298 (333513)
07-19-2006 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Hyroglyphx
07-19-2006 1:37 PM


Re: Let's try this again
So, you honestly believe that she wants all people from the New York Times dead? So do I. Now, am I being serious? Do I really want all the people from the New York Times dead, or did I just say that because its satirical?
go watch some of her interviews, she said on one that the interviewer asked her i think 47? times if she was serious about most of the things she says, she said she was, don't you think at some point she would say "no, its a joke i couldn't believe in the things i write, they are absurd"
she has never once done this, after a while of reading how much she hates the new york time and thier liberial views and they shouldn't exist, you would start to believe her?
That's only because the silver-tongued starlett makes your beliefs look silly and you don't like that. She's witty.
no she isn't all that witty, she has the wit of a five yearold making a poop joke for the thousand time
Some of them are very good at it. And for however crass they can be, I still get the humor. I'm not crying over it like you.
i guess you consider insulting people satire then?
I guess its only satire when you like it. You're the go-to-guy to decide what is or what isn't satire.
hey go watch steven colbert at the white house thing, bush didn't like his satire of republicans very much
Enjoy your opinon and be thankful that you live in a country where that freedom of speech can be expressed.
ann coulter should be too, anywhere else in the world what she says would be considered libel and she could be sued or worse

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-19-2006 1:37 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 5852 days)
Posts: 273
From: Roe Dyelin
Joined: 09-09-2003


Message 171 of 298 (333567)
07-19-2006 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by nator
07-19-2006 5:20 PM


Re: Let's try this again
She apparently has the appearance of a cocaine addict.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by nator, posted 07-19-2006 5:20 PM nator has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 172 of 298 (333572)
07-19-2006 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by nator
07-19-2006 6:50 PM


Re: Satire
That's what Stephen Colbert does. Everybody knows that Colbert isn't really a right-wing pundit. In fact, he's quite liberal, yet he portrays a very conservative right wing pundit on The Colbert Report in order to make fun of the policies and major players on the conservative right. He has often stated that one of the people he has modeled his character after is Bill O'Reilly, for example.
the part that really gets me about colbert is that sometimes he'll be debating a scientist or left-winger on his show, and he'll just totally pwn them. i find it amazing that he can make extreme right arguments better than the people really on the right, and make them make sense and sound convincing.
sometimes i'm just dumbfounded at how quick this guy is and how sharp his devil's advocate arguments are.
If Coulter were to actually be engaging in satire to make fun of the left, she would have to portray a far-left pundit, and pretend to espouse a far left position.
So, she isn't using satire.
i believe the word he's looking for is "strawman" not "satire." coulter regularly exagerates the opponent's position to ridicule it. while i suppose that MIGHT be a vague and small form of satire, on whole, no she does not satirize the left at any length or depth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by nator, posted 07-19-2006 6:50 PM nator has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 173 of 298 (333575)
07-19-2006 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Hyroglyphx
07-19-2006 12:49 PM


Re: stem cell plagiarism
But all of the compilation of works for the Illinoisrighttolife derive from Fumento's work and Hankook Ilbo, which Coulter cited.
coulter's words match the illinois right to life site, and NOT fumento.
if you get the data from somewhere, and they got the data from somewhere, you cite the source you actually got it from. it's better to get something from the original source -- but that doesn't involved copying the secondary source nearly word for word and creditting the original source. especially when it's been demonstrated that not all the data came from that original source. if you got the data through a direct quote in the secondary material, you attribute it to the original source, but say "quote in ____" and the source you actually got it from.
but the issue is that where the words came from and the source she cites do not match. that is plagiarism. and they tell you this sort of thing in any basic college writing class. if you do that in a college like cornell -- the one coulter attended -- you'd get thrown out of your class with an immediate f.
Far be it from me to point out the obvious, but this quibbling is much-ado-about-nothing in a presumed attempt to detract from the actual points of the argument - which is Adult Stem Cells have yielded far more benefits than that of Fetal Stem Cells. In other words, abortion isn't somehow justified over Fetal Stem Cells.
this is not about the argument. this a critique of her book. and "parts of it are plagiarized" is a valid critique. coulter is simply guilty of intellectual dishonesty, whether she is right or wrong. and yes -- i did apply the same standard to michael moore. you'll find that i have also argued that he is intellectually dishonest as well, because he also misrepresents sources.
Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 174 of 298 (333578)
07-20-2006 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Nighttrain
07-19-2006 9:15 AM


Re: Let's try this again
Hey, Jugs, I agree with you about her satirical humour. Look how Annie spoofs Sharon Stone
http://www.3gpclip.com/...nn-coulter-flashing-donnie-deutsch
well, that wouldn't happen if she had any thighs.
seriously ann, eat something. we bleeding heart liberals are starting to worry about you.


This message is a reply to:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 175 of 298 (333579)
07-20-2006 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by macaroniandcheese
07-19-2006 12:02 PM


Re: Let's try this again
yep. parentheticals aren't hard.
neither are footnotes. maybe she just has a problem with parentheses? afterall, she did remove them from the bit she plagiarized from the illinois right to life website...


This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 176 of 298 (333584)
07-20-2006 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by nator
07-19-2006 7:09 AM


Re: Is ignorance bliss?
He's a Harvard graduate and a current Harvard research fellow.
All that means to me is his parents were well off. Georg Bush is a Yale graduate, but that doesn't stop people from calling him an idiot. Cripes, I know a man who graduated from MIT and CalTech, but you'd be hard pressed to hear him compose a coherent sentence or have him tie his shoes.
He's very, very bright.
Though going to an Ivy League school does not mean that you are neccessarily bright, I would say that he's bright. He's just an idiot as far as politics go. Heh.
It takes a lot of smarts to be that funny. A certain nimbleness of mind.
Yes it does. So how is Ann any different?
Perhaps you might quote some of the things he's said which you believe are idiotic?
That would require some effort. I really don't feel like going down to Barnes and Nobles right now being that its 2100 hours.

“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
-1st Peter 3:15

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 179 by nator, posted 07-20-2006 6:57 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 177 of 298 (333587)
07-20-2006 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Hyroglyphx
07-20-2006 12:17 AM


Re: Is ignorance bliss?
So how is Ann any different?
She's not funny?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-20-2006 12:17 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 178 of 298 (333627)
07-20-2006 6:47 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by arachnophilia
07-19-2006 11:57 PM


Re: stem cell plagiarism
quote:
i did apply the same standard to michael moore. you'll find that i have also argued that he is intellectually dishonest as well, because he also misrepresents sources.
The thing is, he does this in order to be funny most of the time.
The whole point of watching a Moore movie is to enjoy the humor he creates with the inappropriate and misleading edits.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by arachnophilia, posted 07-19-2006 11:57 PM arachnophilia has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 179 of 298 (333629)
07-20-2006 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Hyroglyphx
07-20-2006 12:17 AM


Re: Is ignorance bliss?
He's a Harvard graduate and a current Harvard research fellow.
quote:
All that means to me is his parents were well off.
Being a Harvard research fellow has nothing to do with his parents, because he became a fellow in his forties.
Do you even know what a research fellow is?
quote:
Georg Bush is a Yale graduate,
So, then do you agree with Faith that this means that he must be a Marxist?
quote:
but that doesn't stop people from calling him an idiot.
Well, he did barely pass. And he did spend 20 years as a drunk. nd he has never run a successful business. And he can't construct a decently complex sentence in English to save his life.
quote:
He's just an idiot as far as politics go.
Why don't you post some of the political statements Franken has made which show him to be an idiot, then?
You certainly don't need to buy one of his books hon, you're on the internet, remember?
Here's the link to lots and lots of his words on his website. Go to it, man.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-20-2006 12:17 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-20-2006 9:44 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 180 of 298 (333808)
07-20-2006 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Hyroglyphx
07-20-2006 12:17 AM


oh yeah
And about Al Franken's parents being rich?
His dad, who never finished high school, was a printing salesman and his mom was a real estate agent.
I am sure they were OK financially, but I highly doubt they were anything other than middle class. They are certainly not "old money".
I think he was probably able to go to Harvard because he got really good grades and his parents worked really hard to be able to send him.

This message is a reply to:
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