I have to believe that in the past this topic (definition of evolution and creation - maybe 2 separate topics) has been discussed. However, I don't see a way of searching for topics. Even if it has been discussed, I don't see the results of the discussion in the references or orientation on the site. I believe this site should summarize important discussions like this that are foundational to the entire forum. I would volunteer to help do that.
Let me expound further. I am a relatively new member but have researched the topics of evolution and creation for a number of years in the search of truth myself. I now wish to share and test my ideas against the critique of others. The biggest surprise that I have encountered on this forum is the lack of common understanding between the 2 sides of the argument (evolution vs creation) regarding what we are actually talking about.
In my own personal discussions, I have come to believe that, everything aside, most people will believe whatever they want to believe despite the evidence. It is good therefore that EVC has forums regarding religion and faith as well. However, for those that actually can be influenced by evidence, we will be debating until we all die if we don’t even know what we are debating about (although we’re probably debate until we die anyway).
When I search for a definition of evolution on this site, it points me to an article from talk.origins and a definition from the glossary. Pardon the language, but both definitions are complete bull. Succinctly summarized, they basically say that evolution is changes in populations of organisms over time. The origins article defines it as broadly as “merely change”. This is simply ridiculous and I suspect that the most respected proponents and leaders of evolutionary thought today would agree with me.
No one can argue that populations do not change over time. This is almost self evident and is certainly considered by everyone including creationists as scientific fact (as much as the theory of gravity can be called fact). It is patently dishonest and misleading to say that change in moth coloration proves that moths can change into giraffes given enough time. Any simpleton can see that there is a difference between those 2 types of change. Over millions of generations of attempting to “evolve” fruit flies, they are still fruit flies! They did not change into lizards, which would require NEW genetic information to be added. This is what the debate is really about, not the AMOUNT of change but the TYPE of change.
The bottom line is that creationists believe that there is a genetic limit to how much change within a “kind” of organism can occur. I agree that creationists still have some work to do in defining “kinds” and what those limits are. Most of the time, it is relatively obvious (ie there was a “wolf/dog” kind and an “elephant/mammoth” kind etc.), but that’s a different debate.
I would offer this definition for evolution:
ALL life has arisen over millions of years by purely naturalistic means from a common ancestor which itself came from non-life. The mechanism commonly proposed for evolution is mutations coupled with natural selection, which accounts for the formation of new and different genetic information over time.
Now, I realize that may be controversial within this forum. However, I’m totally fine with forgetting the definitions altogether. Let’s just simply agree that this is what the debate is about! NOT whether “things change”.
On the creation side it might be:
God created the universe and all life approximately 6000 years ago according to the historical account from the bible, which includes the occurrence of a worldwide flood. The original created kinds of organisms were genetically information rich allowing them to adapt successfully to diverse and changing environments through natural selection.
In this context, we can then intelligently ask the question "does the rapid change in beak sizes of finches on the Galapagos islands more closely support our presupposition that all life arose over millions of years from a common ancestor or our presupposition that separate kinds of organisms were created thousands of years ago with the inherent ability to adapt to changing environments"?
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