What would your doctor say?

Not really. False theology stemming from an overly rationalist and humanistic approach has historically been far worse. Just look at the Catholic Inquistions and such. They didn't need to hear anything direct from God because they already thought they knew and trusted in their doctrine and so killed and tortured folks by the thousands.

Faith, I do rebuke errors and have paid a price for it too, but I also rebuke the error of thinking because people misuse spiritual gifts, that God wants us to stay away from them.

There was a purpose for it that no longer exists. That was to establish His identity as God. That was the whole purpose of Jesus' miracles and the gifts of the early church too.Believe me, I would readily accept all that, and in fact did for a number of years, BUT IT'S THE RAMPANT ERRORS that showed me its falseness. That is what I'm doing in this discussion. Sidelines indeed. Tell that someone who never had anything to do with it. I did. And I do lift my hands in worship. That's one thing from the charismatic movement that even my own pastor who came out of that movement won't give up. And I'd love to have the power of casting out devils. But I've seen a bunch of phony stuff there too.

The doc would say 'Take two of these pills and get a good night`s sleep. If the hallucinations persist, I can arrange an appointment with Dr. Zeuse. He has a good record for treating people with your particular problem.'

Are you willing to be wrong as I was? I prayed and God showed me the errors I had been accepting uncritically. You should do the same, being very willing to be wrong though.You haven't shown that you rebuke errors, or described any such thing. You just sound like all the charismatics who defend it all uncritically.

And as much as I love David Wilkerson, he is just wrong. The problem, Faith, is the approach to discernment among many of the people I think you listen is just wrong, and that's what I am trying to show you. Try applying the same standards to Paul, Peter, and James and their churches, and you can get the picture.There is nothing wrong with the Toronto Blessing and the phenomena are all quite common in church history during different periods. Now, do immature believers sometimes make the experiences the thing instead of the Lord?Yep, just as people do over nearly everything. In fact, there are quite a lot of people that make their doctrine "the thing", usually filled with abominable errors but they think is 100% true, and so we have in Church history a man with a great mind like Calvin justifying and orchestrating killing other human beings for disagreeing with him.

OK, you found a case where there's obviously a big problem. I simply meant the multitudinous differences that divide all the denominations, of which most must be in error, that are disputed by others but not treated as crucial.But anything that is said to have come straight from God has a special gripping power, and when the charismatics enforce it with their threats against anyone who would dare criticize it, as quenching the Spirit and worse, it has a tyrannically repressive effect.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Unfortunately for your theory about me, I started with my OWN criticisms and I got my first insight into the problems through prayer. Your refrain about Paul Peter and James and so on is just standard charismatic accusation. Just an insinuation against your critics.

You haven't listened Faith. Did you catch my point on authoritarianism?The problem seems to be you want me to rebuke the spiritual gifts and phenomena themselves, and most of what I have seen is genuine in that area except there is quite a bit of false prophecy, but even there, there is still true prophecy as well and so the rebuke has to address the root problems, and the root problems is not speaking in tongues, beleiving in spiritual gifts or falling on the ground or even some of the wilder excesses we see in revivals.None of that is the real issue. All of the major errors are rooted in teachings and doctrines contrary to specific teachings Jesus gave in the gospels, all of them.And just to head you off at the pass, Jesus did warn us of false prophets and lying signs and wonders, but he never told us to just call all prophets and signs and wonders false, which seems to be where you are heading. That's just substituting one error for another.

Good night.

Faith, I don't doubt you were in circles with serious errors. I have been in some churches with them too, but the thing the Lord brings me back to in prayer is to concentrate on the teachings of Jesus Christ in the gospels. There is basically a set of sayings and stories that match a certain doctrine and teaching, and you can see where people teach contrary to something He taught, and match that up with errors.But if you start with this extra-biblical stuff, which is all that cessasionist theology is, you are just adopting one error for another.

Faith, I know you've said goodnight, but I wanted to respond to this.You do have the power because the power is the Spirit of God within you, but at the same time, if you reject the means by which He wants to grow that anointing, guess what? It won't happen, and if you reject such things as unnecessary today because some theology tells you it was just for a time to establish the canon, you aren't too likely to move in it either, and imo, we are called to do the same works Jesus did, and that's one of them. So is healing the sick, preaching the kingdom in power, and all of it....well, maybe not walking on the water, but you get my drift. Cecessanionism is a seriour error not founded in scripture but in people's negative experiences with other believers.

Yea, and that can lead to withcraft which I mentioned earlier, but that comes from teaching the minister is the head rather than Jesus.

Why do you even care?

Evil?